The rules have been handed down, 250 SS will NOT happen for 2012........

[CHIRINOM]

Unless you want to run a GP chassis, they're legal too;

             

6.10 THUNDERBIKE [/size]- Thunderbike machines are based upon production models, sold

by manufacturers and their dealers in North America for street use. Proof of compliance

rests with the competitor entering the motorcycle. Single cylinder and 250 GP[/b]

machines are exempt from production and street use requirements. [/size]. All machines

must have unaltered VIN numbers.

That is where the gentleman's agreement comes into play, Bruce. Lets keep it simple. I say we run it like the 2011 rules were written.

[775]

Im totaly in on the gentlemen's agreement, both mine and my wife's bikes will be SS with intact engines.
I think its a great idea to use the 2011 class rules and It would be nice to post them here as well as on the spec class racing facebook page, Miguel?
And to Mark #22, I won't lough at the giosung but I will lough at the guy who shows up with a "world superbike kind of" ninja 250 because this clas is ment to be a budget class, "wanna be a hi roller? Get a bimota".

[CHIRINOM]

Im totaly in on the gentlemen's agreement, both mine and my wife's bikes will be SS with intact engines.
I think its a great idea to use the 2011 class rules and It would be nice to post them here as well as on the spec class racing facebook page, Miguel?
And to Mark #22, I won't lough at the giosung but I will lough at the guy who shows up with a "world superbike kind of" ninja 250 because this clas is ment to be a budget class, "wanna be a hi roller? Get a bimota".

Here is a link to the 2011 Rules. It was newly added 05/04/2011. Due to technical difficulties I am unable to copy and paste from a PDF at this moment.

Addendum 3, pages 55-56.
www.ccsracing.us/forms/2011/rules/2011%20asra-ccs%20rulebook.pdf

[CHIRINOM]

Here is a link to the 2011 Rules. It was newly added 05/04/2011. Due to technical difficulties I am unable to copy and paste from a PDF at this moment.

Addendum 3, pages 55-56.
www.ccsracing.us/forms/2011/rules/2011%20asra-ccs%20rulebook.pdf

ADDENDUM 3 - Ultralight ThunderBike -
3.1 Ultralight ThunderBike - This class will be run at selected events. Ultralight ThunderBike
motorcycles are production machines sold by manufacturers and their dealers
for street use in North America via normal commercial channels. All machines must have
unaltered VIN numbers. Proof of compliance rests with the competitor entering the machine.
3.1.1 Production machines not sold by manufacturers and their dealers for
street use in North America via normal commercial channels may be
approved on an individual basis. CCS will maintain a list of non-standard
approved models and that list will be available at each event from the
Race Director.
A. CCS reserves the right to re-factor machines at any time. CCS will
notify current licensees 30 days prior to any change. Changes will
take effect 30 days from the original date of notification.
3.1.2 All motorcycles must meet the following requirements in addition to the
applicable requirements in Section 5.
A. Original equipment wheels, brake calipers, forks, frame, engine, fuel
induction system, and swing arm must be used.
(1) 18" wheels may be replaced with 17" wheels of the same width.
(2) 16" wheels may be replaced with 17" wheels of the same width.
(3) Rear swing arms on OEM Belt drive motorcycles may be
replaced to convert final drive assembly from belt to chain drive.
B. Aftermarket brake rotors may be used but must be the same
dimensions as the originals and must be made of a ferrous material.
Non-current motorcycles may use brake rotors up to the same size
as those that come as original equipment on the current model machine.
(1.) Aftermarket brake cooling ducts or wind deflectors are prohibited
in Ultralight ThunderBike.
C. Any fairing may be used provided meets the requirements in Section 5..
D. Original equipment air box must remain as produced. Air filters must
be used but may be Aftermarket units. Aftermarket air filters are
restricted to units available via normal commercial channels and
designed to mount in the stock location for that specific model
machine. Aftermarket air filter units that replace part of the OEM. air
box are required to maintain the original size and number of air inlet
openings as the stock unit.
E. Engine modifications include the following:
(1.) Pistons which are no larger than 1mm over stock size may be
used but must be same compression ratio as the OEM piston.
(2.) Original equipment cylinders must be used.
(3.) Original equipment head, valves, and cams must remain as
produced, with the exception of machining the gasket surface of
55
the cylinder head.
(4.) Original equipment cases, crankshaft, and connecting rods must
remain as produced.
(5.) Original equipment transmission gears must be used.
(6.) Carburetor bodies and/or throttle bodies may not be modified,
bored, or polished.
F. Internal engine modifications on all single cylinder machines,
4-stroke twin cylinder machines with less than 4 valves per cylinder
produced prior to the 1999 model year and all twin cylinder machines
produced prior to the 1994 model year are unlimited, provided class
displacement limits are not exceeded.
G. Aftermarket carburetors may be used on single cylinder machines,
all 4-stroke twin cylinder machines with less than 4 valves per
cylinder, and all twin cylinder 4-stroke machines produced prior to the
1994 model year. 6.1.2. D. is waived for single cylinder and all twin
cylinder 4-stroke machines produced prior to the 1999 model year.
H. Tires must be DOT approved.
(1.) If the Race Director declares a "Wet" event, commercially available
rain tires may be used in place of DOT approved tires for the
remainder of that race day.

[Vitamin-E]

Here's my take: the results are in, & there won't be a change to ULTB this year. As much as I'd like to see it happen, it's not likely, & I understand why at this point. I'm up for running my motor as SUPERSPORT as the rules say...... But it's a tough "agreement", as many people don't visit this forum.

Discuss & input.

I'm down for a SuperSport rule set for this class.  As far as a Genteman's Agreement goes, I guess.  But I think SS rules should be written down and enforced (it looks like that's what the 2011 rules are...?).  Why would we want a class for 250s to degenerate into a high-buck 250 Superbike class??  Isn't the affordability and rider development of this class one of its main calling cards!!??  Could the WERA E-SS rules be copied and pasted so that bikes are multi-series legal??

I haven't raced with you guys in a long time but I'll prolly make a few rounds this year on the Ninja 250.

[CHIRINOM]

I'm down for a SuperSport rule set for this class.  As far as a Genteman's Agreement goes, I guess.  But I think SS rules should be written down and enforced (it looks like that's what the 2011 rules are...?).  Why would we want a class for 250s to degenerate into a high-buck 250 Superbike class??  Isn't the affordability and rider development of this class one of its main calling cards!!??  Could the WERA E-SS rules be copied and pasted so that bikes are multi-series legal??

I haven't raced with you guys in a long time but I'll prolly make a few rounds this year on the Ninja 250.

I agree. We should definitely be prepared to submit a set of rules when the rules committe meets again.  CCS has aknowledged the interest that riders have to run the class under Super Sport rules. They state that they will re consider the rules for 2013 given there is participation.

We need to show numbers.

[Drew424]

I'm searching for my 250 while up in Atlanta later this month - I'm totally in on not touching the engine...

[vance]

I agree with vitamin-e with making the rules very similar, if not identical, to WERA's is a good idea.  In the FL region alone, we should be able to pick up a few guys for the JGP and RRR rounds even if the GA boys aren't willing to drive all the way down to South FL.


After reading both sets, I think the only difference involves the wiring harness.
Air box and wheel size has already been addressed in both

[CHIRINOM]

Hey guys I am resurrecting the thread as it has been a year since we agreed to run the gentleman's agreement due to the rule changes in 2012. From what I saw at the races, 2012 was a huge success. The racing was close with several different winners, we had added riders every round, numerous wild card riders aboard rented and borrowed bikes, and a large amount of interest from other riders looking to join in.

As 2013 is quickly approaching, It is time to provide your input to CCS about any rules suggestions that you may have. Per Erick Kelcher, CCS is open to hearing our suggestions and requested that any rules suggestions should be forwarded to info@CCSracing.com.

I have spoken to many of the Ultra Light Thunder bike riders and submitted a rules proposal based upon what the majority of riders with whom I spoke requested. While not all inclusive, I believe that it captures what we agreed to run under the gentleman's agreement with a few additions as we have learned about along the way. Please see the proposed rules below. If you have any additional input, please forward your request to CCS.

I am looking forward to racing with all of you in 2013!

[Tri74x]

I think you've got a good start here, but if I may- please allow me to make some observations. Fuel testing and weighing machines could be problematic. Takes time, costs money, would be a PIA to CCS officials. First the fuel: if some ding-dong puts $20/gal. rocket fuel into his legal standard compression motor, let him. He'll make less power, go slower, and have less money. Since you're proposing no engine modifications, this makes fuel choice moot. Did you mean 94 octane? Need to keep rules simple... Weight: what's the number? Where should you add weight to the machine? What if your only 1 Lb. over? Again, overly complex and would always be a point of contention amongst racers. We're not grooming future GP stars here... read USGPRU rules if you really want to go down this road.

Allowable upgrades seem well thought out and reasonable.

For additional modifications: I'd think you'd better at least allow one overbore? Let's say you ran a couple seasons and its time to overhaul the motor- Or, you had some internal failure. You would be stuck sourcing another stock cylinder vs. just getting a good hone/bore and a set of +.020 pistons. To be honest, I don't know- maybe these parts are cheap and plentiful? Just seems a waste to "throw away" a good cylinder in effort to keep OEM displacement. And really, another 4 cc's ain't going to help you get past the 85lb. kid. My leathers weigh more than that!

Oh, and where's the air-cooled 350's?!?!?

[MAZZ77X]

I like it.

Keep the costs down and the class will grow. We just need to get everyone to drop their egos and give the 250 a chance. Ridden at full race pace these bikes are a pure blast and can teach anyone a lot about going fast at any track! Worked great for my son and he never smiles like he does after a good Ninja 250 battle! 8)

[CHIRINOM]

I think you've got a good start here, but if I may- please allow me to make some observations. Fuel testing and weighing machines could be problematic. Takes time, costs money, would be a PIA to CCS officials. First the fuel: if some ding-dong puts $20/gal. rocket fuel into his legal standard compression motor, let him. He'll make less power, go slower, and have less money. Since you're proposing no engine modifications, this makes fuel choice moot. Did you mean 94 octane? Need to keep rules simple... Weight: what's the number? Where should you add weight to the machine? What if your only 1 Lb. over? Again, overly complex and would always be a point of contention amongst racers. We're not grooming future GP stars here... read USGPRU rules if you really want to go down this road.

Allowable upgrades seem well thought out and reasonable.

For additional modifications: I'd think you'd better at least allow one overbore? Let's say you ran a couple seasons and its time to overhaul the motor- Or, you had some internal failure. You would be stuck sourcing another stock cylinder vs. just getting a good hone/bore and a set of +.020 pistons. To be honest, I don't know- maybe these parts are cheap and plentiful? Just seems a waste to "throw away" a good cylinder in effort to keep OEM displacement. And really, another 4 cc's ain't going to help you get past the 85lb. kid. My leathers weigh more than that!

Oh, and where's the air-cooled 350's?!?!?

I can see the concern about the fuel and weight, however CCS already has these rules in place for other classes. Fuel is simply a matter of sending to the lab. It is at  the expense of the person protesting so not sweat off CCS's back. More than anything it will dissuade the use of the oxygenated fuel which has been reported to provide more power. I do not know about you but I can do with out spending 25+ a gallon. This is a reason I am no longer running my GP bike.

I see your point about the over bore but can't the cylinders just be re sleeved? The reason we included it is based upon other clubs rules. It leads us to believe that some are getting an advantage from the over bore? I am open to this one if there is no performance gained.

As for the weight, I say base it some where in between the average adult male and female weight which is 150 to 180 in the USA +/- per google. This way the riders have the option of weighing up or slimming down. I do not think that the key is exact numbers but it is about getting the field a little closer. Walter and I are 20/30 lbs apart and we have had some good races. James and I are about the same and have had some good racing. But now James and Walter would be more like 60 lbs apart it would probably make for some better racing if we were to get it a little closer. Does any one know how much an EX250 weighs in full race trim?

As for the 350, I have see what that thing is capable of. I will tell you what Jason, I will let you ride my B bike ;) I could also use your help in getting my CL360 running so that I can join you guys in the Florida Vintage series.