2012 Ultralightweight Thunderbike?

[Jiggyfly]

If CCS doesn't change the rules, I'm in for the gentlemans agreement for "supersport" mods.
Anyone else?

[clarustnb]

So all of this 250 talk is making me curious - rough ball park figures what is the cost difference?
i.e. SS = $4k worth of bike
a modest SB = $5k? $10k? $25k

I guess from an outside view and as a guy who is getting ready to start reproducing I'm looking to shave a few grand off of my racing budget next year and would hang up the SV for this if I could compare it to the LW SS grids.

[vance]

So all of this 250 talk is making me curious - rough ball park figures what is the cost difference?
i.e. SS = $4k worth of bike
a modest SB = $5k? $10k? $25k

I guess from an outside view and as a guy who is getting ready to start reproducing I'm looking to shave a few grand off of my racing budget next year and would hang up the SV for this if I could compare it to the LW SS grids.

$2000 for the bike from Walter already piped and jetted
$750 for sharkskins (not necessary)
$800 for Ed Sorbo to set up suspension for 180# (probably not necassary)
$300 weekends including travel fuel until I buy tires, which will be $250 some time in the year 2032! :)

[roadracer162]

J
I know nobody gives a shit, but my slow ass turned laps 3.5 seconds off the winner's pace last weekend.  Last time I was on a 600 at Homestead it was, oh I don't know.... 15 seconds or so off lead pace???
So the point is, at the end of the race, the leader was at least in freakin' site of my average ass and it felt good.  That bike is going to sit in the garage AS IS and the things I need to get faster don't involve $$$$.  After racing a 1000, 600, 125, ex500 and now the 250, there's no better bike for an average rider looking to have fun and still FEEL like there's a chance to hang with the guys winning.  I don't know how to "build" a bike, but that was one less thing I needed to be concerned with.
How many threads are here that start off:  "New to racing and wondering what bike to get.."  The response?  "SV and LEARN TO RIDE.  Don't sink a bunch of money into a bike, bla bla...."
What's it cost to put an SV on top of the podium?
What's it cost to put an ex250 on top of the podium?


As far as limited participation.....
I don't know the first thing about how to build a class and get guys to the grid.  I only know why I chose to race the 250 and this news is disappointing.

Vance,
can you get it done with the SV? Yes. The SV is still competitive in Ultralight Superbike and LW SS in many regions.

My little FZR400 has cost me $700 for purchase and prep to go racing. I make tires last the season only because i am not practicing that much on them. Tires last over 130 laps with lap times within 1 second from start to end of the tires.

To build the class it is good to talk it up. Get together with other potential and current 250 riders and get a petition signed by each in support of changing back to SS rules. I am sure as a group Kevin will listen. if the argument you make is reasonable and has strong points, what lease cold he say?

Mark

[clarustnb]

$2000 for the bike from Walter already piped and jetted
$750 for sharkskins (not necessary)
$800 for Ed Sorbo to set up suspension for 180# (probably not necassary)
$300 weekends including travel fuel until I buy tires, which will be $250 some time in the year 2032! :)

Exactly what I was looking for! Thanks a bunch!

[vance]

My little FZR400 has cost me $700 for purchase and prep to go racing.

To build the class it is good to talk it up. Get together with other potential and current 250 riders and get a petition signed by each in support of changing back to SS rules. I am sure as a group Kevin will listen. if the argument you make is reasonable and has strong points, what lease cold he say?

Mark

I have my ex500 sitting in a buddy's garage back in KY with no class to race in here in South FL.  It cost me about $1200 for everything and with an average rider turns times fast enough to finish on the podium in both DSS and Clubman.  If I'm going to have an obsolete bike I might as well sell the 250 and race the South FL region of WERA where I at least have a chance to hang with the other bikes on the grid, and that's not a threat to leave CCS.  I would much rather travel 2 hours to Homestead and PBIR than 6 hours minimum just to make the Jennings rounds.

As far as the 250 class is concerned, I've spent the money on the bike already and would like to enjoy the weekends racing it.  Now, if that means a spec class that's cool.  If it means that a handful of us make a gentlemen's agreement to limit the mods and have our own little battle inside the expanded class, that's fine too but I'm not sure how long that would hold together. 

For those reading who aren't aware of the 250 schedule, we were gridded behind the 125GP and ULSB race.  I'm not the type to crap in somebody else's sandbox and I know without CCS I don't have a place to play, but to say that opening the class up is the best way to JUSTIFY a full season schedule seems a bit odd to me.  You had 7 bikes gridded behind 2 existing races for a race that, quite frankly, had it not been for the other 250 riders, nobody would have even known about.

[Jiggyfly]

......same with our race. We were tossed onto the back of another grid, (which is fine by me, unless the 250 grid grew to be the bigger one), so it doesn't add any time, really.

[Tri74x]

I've been around a while and seen this scenario play out before. US twin sports, Seca II's, remember those? 50cc Derbys, and latest (and pretty damn cool) cb160 class in AHRMA. Lemans starts and everything. They all have in common the fact that they started out "spec" classes, but history has proven over and over that we as racers will ruin it (for the most part.) We can't help it, it's what we do as racers. To always push to go faster. We can keep this together for a while, but I'm telling you someone will find a hp or two with a "bent" rule. Then another, then another, you get the idea. I suspect that CCS HQ is well aware of this and just went straight to the inevitable and penned the rules as such.

That being said, I'm strongly in favor of keeping it SS- or stock, or however you guys call it. CHEAP. (hint* it's best how to increase the grids...) We can police ourselves for a while and as the grids get larger, we then will have the clout ($$ to ccs) to discuss further refinement of the rules. Split am/ex, create unlimited ULTB for those who have money to burn, etc...

I just want to race, and will race as long as my bike is eligible. I will however disqualify myself if I can ever finish a race (a win that is...) You guys (and girls- sorry) can have the points. Just let me have a trophy once in a while!

Jason

[roadracer162]

Good post Jason and right on point. Yeah I remember what you speak of, only I was not competing back then. I didn't have any money or medical insurance.

I agree get the participation and money, then use the clout to channel your class into what you want. Ultraight supersport would be stock inspired SV and Ducati 800 though just as it is Ultralight Superbike now. Typically an SV is racing up a class in Lightweight SS.

Mark

[CHIRINOM]

Like most of you, the reason that I am participating in this class is because of the closeness of the machines when run stock and the minimal budget involved in campaigning it. I have raced 500's, 600's, SV650's, and 125 GP machines in my 15+ years of running with CCS. Due to the current economic climate I have not been able to race more than a hand full of races in a season for years. I had hopes that this would be my first full season since 2004.

This class as initially laid out in the 2011 rule book and as run this last week end at Homestead has been one of the most fun races I have participated in in years.

Sure there have been variations of Spec Style classes over the years however this is different. Why? Because we are using one of the most mass produced four stroke machines ever built, Parts are available, cheap, and the motorcycles actually perform. An example of this is last week end where James and I on bone stock 250's came up on EX500 and SV650 traffic from the ultra light super bike class ahead of us.

There is no reason for the rule change. As we can see by the response on this thread and after last week ends races at Homestead, racers who are campaigning this class want to keep it even and cheap. Continuing with the 2012 Ultra Light Thunder bike rules will surely kill the class and cost CCS an additional entry fee for those riders running multiple classes. If a rider wants to be able to perform unlimited modifications to a 250, they buy a Morawaki and run 125 GP. Even if the ulsb was all stock, the tires still cost a good penny and the difference in displacement is huge. If a rider should want to ride an economical bike, the 2011 Ultra Light Thunder bike where it run as a Super Sport class as advertised in the 2011 press release is the way to go. There will be riders entering an additional class and riders like me who want to be out there on a minimal budget and actually be competitive.

Please revert to the 2011 rule structure and let us race.

[Jiggyfly]

The sad part about the 2012 rules is that if one guy built a 250 "superbike", & let's say for his $1500 he made 35 hp......it's still not "fast", but gives him a 5-7 hp (maybe as much as 10 over some!) advantage over the supersport spec bikes, which is a huge percentage gain. That guy would clobber everyone else on the grid.

[Drew424]

I am looking for an inexpensive way to increase my participation and race "seat time" in CCS-FL, I'm MORE than willing to pay CCS many more CCS racing fees, but not at the expense of building ANOTHER race bike to compete in the technology arms race....


If CCS-FL does not provide some controls over this 250 class, I'm out on this one.  In shopping for my 250cc, all I wanted to do was make sure it had good brakes, descent rubber and race skinz and then GO RACING...with equally motivated folks on equally set up race bikes...


I had no intention of another vicious cycle of spending money to keep up....it's not racing if I'm the only one who hasn't opted for the thinner head gasket, custom pistons, milled and ported head, on and on and on...no thanks, will practice on my mini-moto at the cart track instead.


Henry, please listen on this one, create an economical port of entry for adults and/or parents in a strapped economy to race or let their kids develop their racing via clear rules and strong oversight...


...with proper marketing this class should be a good feeder helping sustain future CCS-FL participation. Just think about the track day riders you've now opened up CCS weekends too, many take advantage of the low cost track day, would like to give racing a shot, but in NO WAY can they afford to equip and race their only 600/1000cc street bike with an $8,000 bank note on it, nor afford to jump in for another such bike equipped to compete....but after hanging around the racing paddock on that track day, they discover an affordable $1500-$2500 port of entry to the checkered flag via a spec class 250cc that does NOT need $400-$550 DOT race tires every few race weekend...for some, that is ALL they needed to hear to jump in and participate in CCS-FL...


...and those are numbers you can bank on.


Drew
757 Pilot