Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

Gino230

423

+47/-9

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2011, 12:34:30 pm »

It seems like the rules are MORE important for the smaller (LW, MW) classes, where a small advantage could make a big difference in lap time. The big bikes have so much HP, the rules matter a little less...for most of us mere mortals anyway.

The rules are important though, as someone else pointed out, it's the only thing keeping blatant cheating from going on.

SS is an important class, it allows riders on a budget to be competitive in at least one class. Big HP is expensive, especially down here in FL where big HP also usually comes with gas charged forks, carbon wheels, etc....

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CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion 2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now 2012....damn you Mavros!

grasslander

89

+8/-1

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 07:17:33 pm »

Quote from: Gino230 on October 25, 2011, 12:34:30 pm

It seems like the rules are MORE important for the smaller (LW, MW) classes, where a small advantage could make a big difference in lap time. The big bikes have so much HP, the rules matter a little less...for most of us mere mortals anyway.

The rules are important though, as someone else pointed out, it's the only thing keeping blatant cheating from going on.

SS is an important class, it allows riders on a budget to be competitive in at least one class. Big HP is expensive, especially down here in FL where big HP also usually comes with gas charged forks, carbon wheels, etc....

Tire choice is the least of your problems attempting to compete in LW SS.

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apriliaman

401

+38/-7

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2011, 11:58:03 pm »

For my ducati I use pirelli slicks most of the time.When I use dot's my lap times are still the same.Only advantage is slicks last longer for me,not lap times.I get 300mi on a front and i still cant ware it out,4 to 5 race weekends just have to change it of the miles.The rear last me 200 mi easy and can still use it for practice after that.On my SV I do 5 race weekends on the same set front and back dot's.

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twilkinson3

277

+22/-5

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 01:18:26 pm »

Quote from: grasslander on October 26, 2011, 07:17:33 pm

Tire choice is the least of your problems attempting to compete in LW SS.

Agreed - most of the "prblems" are the rule set....I honestly think it costs more to have/build a competitive LW SS bike than a MW SS bike...

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apriliaman

401

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Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2011, 01:52:13 pm »

Racing middleweight i think would be alot less money to race.In lightweight there is so many bikes that have special lightweight parts that 600's or even 1000's don't have,and most bikes have alot of work in the engine.In 600's it is about your suspension,tires,and the rider can make the most difference.Would if Rossi jumped on your bike,how much faster do you think it will go.I see in team challenge when there is a rider change sometimes there is a 3 sec a lap difference between the riders on the same bike.

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Gino230

423

+47/-9

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2011, 03:30:30 pm »

Quote from: twilkinson3 on October 27, 2011, 01:18:26 pm

Agreed - most of the "prblems" are the rule set....I honestly think it costs more to have/build a competitive LW SS bike than a MW SS bike...

Mostly because there just isn't that many bikes being built that fit in the LW category.

Despite that, there will always be someone who will build the bikes to the maximum that the rules allow....I didn't hear much complaining when the SV came out and started destroying all of the Honda Hawks, Aprillia 250's, EX 500's, etc.

Besides, the SV should be pretty dominant in ULW, right?

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CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion 2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now 2012....damn you Mavros!

twilkinson3

277

+22/-5

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2011, 04:24:13 pm »

Quote from: Gino230 on October 27, 2011, 03:30:30 pm

Mostly because there just isn't that many bikes being built that fit in the LW category.

Despite that, there will always be someone who will build the bikes to the maximum that the rules allow....I didn't hear much complaining when the SV came out and started destroying all of the Honda Hawks, Aprillia 250's, EX 500's, etc.

Besides, the SV should be pretty dominant in ULW, right?

Wasn't the point, and I missed the era where the sv started beating up on the hawk et al - the current rule set for Supersport is a recipe for expense, the lack of significant restrictions on a lot of things is what makes it so expensive to run a competitive bike in LW - and hey I have a lot of trick bits on the SS legal bike myself...then again I'm an established Software engineer nearing the formula old guy age and can afford that stuff, but that doesn't make it accessible to a larger audience...LW supposedly is the place that an aspiring racer can get his/her feet wet with a lower bill to foot to do so...I feel it's the opposite, it's probably cheaper to race a liter bike for a season than a truely competitive SS bike in CCS

All that said, what I've seen/read of the ULW Thunderbike rules are more "wera" like in that they state more what you can do to the bike rather than what you can't and should help contain costs and make for some seriously good "entry" level racing - just waiting myself to see if we get rounds of it up in the midwest.....

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roadracer162

1462

+68/-32

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2011, 12:01:25 pm »

I have heard many valid points in this thread that apply to the whole mix in racing. We may have strayed off the topic a little so please accept my apologies. In my thinking racing is all about the whole package. It is about the rider, the brand of bike and the assets it contains, and the amount of money I am willing to spend to overcome the liabilities/deficits. Put my whole package together against some other package and we have a race.

The small rider has an advantage over the larger. I can lose weight but not as much as cold when I was younger. So I add horsepower up to the limit of the rules. Hopefully the lighter rider doesn't have enough money to do the same. For me I race on a budget and choose not to spend as much as others, but I hold my own when it comes race time. eat I hear the saying, "if you can't afford racing then maybe you shouldn't be". I race with what I can afford.

Lightweight for me is a good starting point for any racer. It offers the new rider a chance to practice and hone skills without the threat of tremendous speed or power that overwhelms the rear tire traction. On the other end of the lightweight spectrum where all the fast experts ride can become very costly. But that's only if you choose to spend that much.

A new Rider in the larger class' already have more than enough power to overwhelm the rear tire and speed to overwhelm the senses of the rider. There is not as much need to upgrade for more power. There is a lot more potential in the ability of the rider before performance upgrades are necessary.

Now, tire choice. I use the tire of my choice because I want to. If it fits within my budget and provides the results that I need then it's my choice.

Rules are there because it helps to delineate the difference in the class structure.

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Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

vnvbandit

258

+22/-5

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2011, 09:58:35 am »

Exactly, good post Mark!

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MACOP1104

334

+16/-20

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2011, 07:51:02 pm »

Quote from: Gino230 on October 27, 2011, 03:30:30 pm

Mostly because there just isn't that many bikes being built that fit in the LW category.

Despite that, there will always be someone who will build the bikes to the maximum that the rules allow....I didn't hear much complaining when the SV came out and started destroying all of the Honda Hawks, Aprillia 250's, EX 500's, etc.

Besides, the SV should be pretty dominant in ULW, right?

The SV is a moderately priced bike and could destroy a Hawk or an EX500 SS prepped. A DB5R costs how much?

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roadracer162

1462

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Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2011, 08:36:14 pm »

It all depends on how much you are willing to spend on the SV. Arnie hastings has done well on the SV against all those big motor Ducati bikes.

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Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

apriliaman

401

+38/-7

Re: Proposed New Tire Rule (or lack of!)

« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2011, 08:52:09 pm »

Arnie's Sv isnt fixed up much at all.Power is about the same as mine,which isnt much.It is about the rider and suspension that makes it fast in the turns.Now if he rode it at daytona his bike would not be fast enough to do much out there just like mine.

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