It's time to suck it up and buy our own transponders in 2012

[Super Dave]

Kevin talked about the RFID system some time back.  It's a great idea, but, currently, it doesn't have the accuracy to help in close finishes.  Sure, you've got a visual, but the lap times to matter.  Maybe that will change in the future.

There's talk about cost.  We're already being charged for the use of the current dbCom system within our entry fees.  This was implemented years ago, but so many have came after this was done...well, they don't know about it.

With the turmoil in the markets and the economy, I guess I would expect that liability costs will continue to rise.  Entry fees are affected by those costs.  So, moving racers over toward a new system that has a cost might allow CCS to maintain the current cost of entry fees.  And that might impact those that decide to race...or not. 

With more and more club level racers being in their thirties to forties compared to the millennia ago that I started...LOL!...where more riders were in their twenties and thirties, the impact and responsibilities of family, retirement, and not being physically indestructible are bigger issues than buying a scoring transmitter that would even have value years down the road.  Mine is five season's old, but it still has a lot of value.  Nothing wrong with that, is there?

[drew231506]

I don't think I'd be thrilled about buying a $400 transponder. I do like viewing the times and it would be nice to have them up quickly with that system though. 

[bodie1331]

I don't understand why anyone would want to buy a $400.00 item when they currently don't have to. The lap times are posted directly after each event, just take a notebook and jot down your target individuals times plus your own. I guess I could see researching the past events to get goal targets, but seems like a big investment to just get the knowledge that you have to shave 2 seconds to be a top 5 or whatever. That said, I've not had the frustration of not knowling or having issues with the current system being a new racer.

[vnvbandit]

BOTH systems, CCS & WERA are antiquated. Instead of buying into an old system, lets look to new technology. Is the RFID system the way to go? I do not know, but it's been in development for a few years now and deserves another assessment. The argument that they aren't accurate doesn't make sense to me. The placement of any timing device on a motorcycle would cause more inaccuracies.  IE: Mounting it up front, middle, or rear of the tail section.  Are there any other NEW timing / scoring options out there? Now is the time to upgrade to the 21st. century!

[Super Dave]

I don't understand why anyone would want to buy a $400.00 item when they currently don't have to.

The current entry cost has it built in.  You pay for it now with your race entries.

It's like public education being free.  You pay property taxes, and those taxes fund the system.

[Burt Munro]

ok.... who's got a spare $30,000 to donate to this system.......

rfid, disposable chips, instant updates to the internet, text messaging, etc.

http://www.innovativetimingsystems.com/ITS-CheetahSystemInfo.html

Hey.... that's a St. Louis company - I might check it out.

[roadracer162]

Dave, there are many that don't pay property taxes and benefit from the public education system. Then there are those that don't work but received an income tax check. Dont get me started.

[Fast Eddy]

Dave, there are many that don't pay property taxes and benefit from the public education system. Then there are those that don't work but received an income tax check. Dont get me started.

There are exceptions to every rule. You get his point.

[mikendzel]

Dave, I get what you're saying.  It's true, we do pay for the system currently.  However, we pay what, $5.00 per entry?  If you look at the end numbers, we have about twice the entries of WERA, due mostly to the lack of the transponder obstacle to entry.  With the increased entries over the year, I'm sure it benefits CCS to stick with the current pricing inclusion.  If we went to the same system as WERA, would we be able to retain the entries?

And so far as the RFID systems, seriously, how many races have even one finishing position that is too close to call?  Even then, transponder placement could determine the outcome over who actually crossed the line first.  I think it's truly a moot point.  We have manual scorers anyway.

Lastly, the transponders are there to determine finishing orders.  They aren't there for lap timing purposes, although it is awesome that they provide that info!  If you are using the lap times as reasoning for everyone having to go out and buy $400 transponders, well I could go get a lap timer for 1/2 that price!  For $400 I could get a GPS lap timer that has track mapping!  That is an invalid argument to make for everyone having to buy transponders.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

..However, we pay what, $5.00 per entry?  If you look at the end numbers, we have about twice the entries of WERA, due mostly to the lack of the transponder obstacle to entry.  With the increased entries over the year, I'm sure it benefits CCS to stick with the current pricing inclusion.  If we went to the same system as WERA, would we be able to retain the entries?...

My initial choice to race with CCS was determined by spectating multiple CCS events at a local track and liking what I saw, proximity to the race tracks in my region, and being very turned off by the tech requirements by WERA. Transponders were not being used by either race org when I started racing in 1996, if both org's require the same transponder to be used the choice between which race org to race with would be the same as back then.

As a general opinion concerning this topic:
The stream-lining of registration / race operations by not having to issue transponders, manually enter into the computer system all the transponder numbers as assigned to each individual racer, collect, inventory, and recharge the transponders at EVERY EVENT is another huge advantage to racers owning their own transponders - the advantages are too obvious to ignore.

I also find it hard to believe that it doesn't cost the average racer AT LEAST $400 per event if you look at all the costs involved - loss of wages, travel costs, per mile depreciation of your tow vehicle, hotel costs, race entries, race tires, race fuel, etc. With that in mind, skipping just ONE EVENT would pay for the transponder, plus most people would recover half that money when they quit racing and sell the transponder to another racer. Add to that the availability of rental units for those not able or willing to invest in a transponder and the cost excuse is simply that - an excuse.

[mikendzel]

As a general opinion concerning this topic:
The stream-lining of registration / race operations by not having to issue transponders, manually enter into the computer system all the transponder numbers as assigned to each individual racer, collect, inventory, and recharge the transponders at EVERY EVENT is another huge advantage to racers owning their own transponders - the advantages are too obvious to ignore.

I also find it hard to believe that it doesn't cost the average racer AT LEAST $400 per event if you look at all the costs involved - loss of wages, travel costs, per mile depreciation of your tow vehicle, hotel costs, race entries, race tires, race fuel, etc. With that in mind, skipping just ONE EVENT would pay for the transponder, plus most people would recover half that money when they quit racing and sell the transponder to another racer. Add to that the availability of rental units for those not able or willing to invest in a transponder and the cost excuse is simply that - an excuse.

Concerning the advantages, sure there are some advantages!  I'm definitely not saying that there aren't advantages to having your own transponder!  However, in my opinion, the disadvantages are huge.

I'm sure for the guys that race every weekend/round, buying the transponder is no big deal.  I think the majority of racers don't fall into this category, nor do they fall into the category where money is no object.  I get to race 3 maybe 4 rounds per year, and I kindly refuse to miss one of the few precious rounds I actually get to attend, just to buy a piece of equipment that doesn't either make my bike faster or protect me. 

Honestly, I'll probably buy one, and keep attending my 3-4 rounds with CCS, because I like the people and have a lot of friends in CCS.  But it does make it EASY for me to miss a round to go race with WERA if I like the track they are running better, or if the weather doesn't look great.  CCS WILL lose entries if they require personal transponders.

[mikendzel]

BTW, my initial choice to race CCS was strictly that it was the first race I could make after I passed my race school, back in 2000.  When I came back to racing in 2007, my choice was based on friends that raced and the transponder requirement.  In fact, there have been a couple of weekends that I would have gone to race with WERA, except for that pesky transponder issue. 

Again, I've tried to talk more than a few people into racing.  The responses are ALWAYS about the cost to get involved and the level of fast required.  The latter is easily overcome.  The cost is the largest barrier, and adding $400 more is going to really hurt the influx of new racers.