When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?

[roadracer162]

I like the idea

[poppop587]

Again, I simply want to know what other class has bikes from 125cc to 1200cc in it.  That doesn't sound reasonable to me or anyone else that I know.   Now to talk about the cheating issue.  Cheating should never be tolerated.  I know that some may unknowingly cheat by misreading a rule or simply not knowing but that is not normally the case.  Those that cheat know they are cheating and usually the guy that throws down the money in a protest is doing so because he is cheating and knows the other guy must be cheating to blow by him the way he just did.  Now with that said, the poor guy who bought a LW bike when it was a reasonable class may not be able to afford a new or different bike but he can afford to do a little cheating.  When the rules make you have to cheat to be competitive there is a major problem.  Once again, look at the enteries in the races going back several years when grids were larger.  Those bikes are leaving the racing grids and you are getting fewer bikes.  The bikes you are getting are the ones that you seem to be catering too.  If they were that important, the grids would have increased in size,  they did not.  I have run a business for many years, and I know that you never do anything to piss off the top 10% of your customers.  They generate 70% of you income.  CCS has taken it upon themselves to piss off 70%  of their customers and expect good things to come from it.  I don't think so!!!!  Please stop!!!   I have always liked running with CCS but you have made it impossible for me to justify spending my money with you except on rare occasions that you run at Summit or NJMP.

[roadracer162]

Well this has been a thread about sportsman class racing and not the lightweight class-that's the other thread. Anyway the lightweight class seems to me as a class that is an indexed class where there are multiple configurations of motors and bikes coming together. For 2011 the Ultralight class will be a class including 125GP machines(water cooled) up to aircooled 800's. The lightweight will consist of 250GP machines(water cooled) up to aircooled 1200. Don't be fooled though because just because something is 1200 it doesn't mean it is the fastest. The 1200 also includes the Harley motors or are they 1300+??

I remember when middleweight was once GPZ550's and Seca 550's. That has changed and so must the lightweight class change as well. It is possible that a sportsman class would have been the more appropriate class but consider this-the lightweight class have had these rules for soe time now. The Ducati aircooled motor has been within those rules for a long time and haven't changed that much. Yeah Bimota has used that to their advantage and built a bike using the Ducati 1070 motor (I think) which is also based on the 1000DS.

Typically around the country you won't be racing against a Bimota so there is no reason for you to worry-not many can afford it. Racing against a Ducati 1000 was put to the test when Arnie Hastings took on some very fast Ducati 1000 riders and beat them with his SV. It can be done. Spend enough time with your SS SV and you can achieve some of the things that Ed Key has achieved with his SS SV.

If the Sportsman class was to be instituted should the lightweight class be populated by the true lightweight machine-the FZR400?

Just some thoughts... Time moves on and CCS has chosen a different path than WERA.

I wonder what the grids were like for WERA say ten years ago, and the comparison of the CCS grids at the same time. I seem to think that the grids are smaller just because the grids are smaller. It seems to me that the most populated class is the middleweight class.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

As far as older in-line 4 cyl bikes like 94-99 600s.  Make a vintage 600 class and let them run with the 600s but scored separately.
Once again like a stated before.  A new class that runs with an existing one doesn't burn track time and adds entries.

There is. Its called Thunderbike. Although it has limits for 600 liquid cooled I4's up to 1992 (although they let F2's up to 94 and FZR600's up to the end of production in 99 since they are pretty much unchanged from 92).

Thunderbike used to be Heavyweight Sportsman. Was a fun class. Old VFR700's, hurricanes, oil cooled 750's. But when theres only 5 bikes in it for a season, things change.

[MACOP1104]

9 weeks to go and the season starts.  Interestingly, CCS and WERA have back to back weekends at Roebling in March.  It will be a good time to study the results/lap times with each orgs rules package. 

[roadracer162]

That's just not enough time for me to rebuild all the bkes I need done. The Ducati needs to come completely apart to have the frame painted and the FZR needs to be completed and fine tuned.

[Ducmarc]

So the answer is what? Run only worn out antquies in lightweght? Limit anything (high tech)?  So make the bimotas and the duel spark motor illegal? Your still not going to fill the grid.  Lightweight is dying because the averge guy rides a 600 on the street so when he looks at a race bike he looks at 600s or bigger the only ones left are cheap old guys who like working on there bikes. Yhats why two strokes are about gone because it requires you to work on it. So now the last 5 guys in the class fuss about what should be legal. It doesn't matter who you let in the grid will be smaller next year. No rule change is going to increase grids I even gave a payout in tbike and it did not add one bike. Buy a dyno and a scale hire a operator 80hp lighweight 125middleweight 175heavyweight and its done

[apriliaman]

Yes there is a big performance gap in the lightweight classes,but even the fastest LW bikes are 3-6 sec slower a lap then the fastest 600 in the same day.So if you put them to race in the 600 class,there is no way your gonna catch up to win even if its a 10 person grid.

[roadracer162]

Marc & Mark-That makes a lof of sense.

[Ducmarc]

Markie I don't think I've ever made any sense

[Ducmarc]

Probably what's really hurt lightweght enteries is no. contingency without that  reason to race that class why would you. Buells gone ducati cheaped out suzuki is out. So why start there?  I started at forty and dummied up and bought a air cooled bike to start with. But if I was 30ish I would buy a 848 or a 600 and wait till I'm criippled to buy a lighweight. Go to a track day no one rides. Lightweght. There will be fifty bikes and 5 of them will be true lightweghts and 3 of those will be racers and the other two didn't have anything else to ride

[apriliaman]

yep when i did both nesba vir full corse  3.25mi trackdays i was the only LW bike out there.