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When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?

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roadracer162

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2011, 12:07:40 pm »
I never did track days before racing, but I did start on a 1991 FZR600. Does that count as a middleweight or lightweight.
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

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Super Dave

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2011, 02:41:26 pm »
I seem to think that the grids are smaller just because the grids are smaller. It seems to me that the most populated class is the middleweight class.
Yeah, a lot of truth there...

Middleweight classes have been and will be popular.  A lot of riders start their riding on 600's, for good or for bad, and then their street bike becomes their racing bike.  600cc production based racing has and will continue to be one of the most competitive classes worldwide.  It can be the starter class, a class that one travels through, and it can be a class that is the final destination. 

There are a lot of stresses on racing in general, so, sure, grids are down.  Exchange rates, employment, emissions...honestly, it's a huge list anymore. 

I do still believe that the complexity of some of CCS's structure has made things a little goofy.  Between five to seven year amateurs and experts returning as amateurs, failure to have something more like a "close to production class", and other things...well, that isn't helping.

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Super Dave

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George_Linhart

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2011, 03:09:01 pm »
I do still believe that the complexity of some of CCS's structure has made things a little goofy.  Between five to seven year amateurs and experts returning as amateurs, failure to have something more like a "close to production class", and other things...well, that isn't helping.

Dave, I agree that economy is an issue and a lot of people have less money to go racing.  In addition, the reduced consumver spending has resulted in lower amounts of contingency being made available to support rading so that per-event "net" costs are up at the same time really compounding the issue.

It may help, but do you make SuperSport became more production oriented accross the board.  Limit the modificaitons in this class to bodywork, springs and tires (ok, maybe rearsets as well).  Or, do you keep SuperSport as it currently is and create a new "Sport Production" class - but then do you run it in conjuction with SS or do you eliminate somehting else in the race day? 

Really difficult questions - the devil is always in the detail.

George
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roadracer162

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2011, 05:07:25 pm »
Yes there is a big performance gap in the lightweight classes,but even the fastest LW bikes are 3-6 sec slower a lap then the fastest 600 in the same day.So if you put them to race in the 600 class,there is no way your gonna catch up to win even if its a 10 person grid.

I have seen a front runing LW bike run mi-dpack or the middleweight class, but then again that's what the SV guys are left with in lightweight. I must say that Doucette on his SV ran extremely well at Homestead against the fastest Bimota.

As for a stock class-I seem to think most guys are not just in it for the rider aspect but they are also in it for who can best tune the bike. HP mods come to mind along with all the "bling" that is attractive to the "street rider gone racing".
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Mark Tenn
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George_Linhart

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2011, 05:48:41 pm »
I have seen a front runing LW bike run mi-dpack or the middleweight class,

 A few years back when I was running my CBR600F2 in Thunderbike I would race it in GTU and MWSB for fun.  Despite the ungodly weight of that steel framed pig, at tight tracks I could finish mid-pack.  Even at Road America where I was giving up huge amounts of speed on all the straights I didn't finish last (OK, it was like 2nd or 3rd to last, but it wasn't last).  It was actually a lot of fun and a huge sense of accomplishment given that every lap I would pass 5-6 bikes between the Carosel, Thunder Alley and Canada Corner only to have all of them suck my paint off by the entry to Turn 1.

As I think about it, perhaps one of the reasons that grids are smaller is that there is always a 1st place finisher at a race and everyone can not win.  The youth of today are so spoiled and used to getting their participation trophies that they can not accept that they are not all #1.  Think about the demographics at the track.  Seems to me that there are just fewer young faces when I am racing but they are all there at the few track days I have attended.

Maybe?

George
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roadracer162

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2011, 06:50:59 pm »
George it seems you may have something there. In conversation with another racer, who incidentally races AHRMA, reported that the AHRMA grids are sunstantial and make the CCS rounds look like a ghost town. He also reports the average age of the AHRMA group is also substantial compared to the CCS group.

We now live in a society of entitlement.
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Mark Tenn
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Super Dave

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2011, 07:38:18 pm »
George, you might be onto something...

Doesn't cover the whole "demographic", but it does explain some of the change.  Fewer willing to be part of the competitive crowd. 
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poppop587

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2011, 08:01:28 pm »
Not that it would work, but maybe that dyno and a scale would be the best thing to have.  At least that would take the major money out of the game.
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Super Dave

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2011, 08:04:30 pm »
Cost, time, and the ability to have multiple maps make trackside dynos a little impractical. 
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Ducmarc

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2011, 09:18:44 pm »
now that i'm an old crippled guy there is an allure to ahrmadillo racing. no next nicky hayden althuogh there's doug polen . there seems to be a class for almost everybike in the garage except late model 4 cylinders.they have a trhimph spec class that seems to work. they also are a club and they have gone bankrupt before. they only have a few road races so it makes it an event. they also don't seem to mind riders spending thouands on there bikes. i've never raced wera and there classes seem confusing but that maybe because i haven't raced with them.  what do they complain about? us? or the same problems we have. ive bought a few wera motors and their destroked 748s seem anything but cheap inside. i do think 5 years ago lightweight was for cheap guys and cripples but then a few guys with deep pockets and not enough nerve to ride a 200hp  1000 found the class fun. so now you have 50k bimotas. outlaw them and you will have 50k SVs. ten years ago how many sets of olins forks did you see? now everyones buying gas charged sets.  i think its all sour grapes because chris boy  is a ducati guy and not in to SVs lol. if it were'nt for him you guys would not be able to spell bimota. maybe you should outlaw ducati motocorse. how about do like disney have a class hopper pass pay 200$ and race every class you want.   lightweight is hopeless kill it now and put it out of its misery
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MACOP1104

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2011, 11:58:07 pm »
I think some of you pricks need to realize that there is a difference between being cheap and racing what a person can afford. 
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George_Linhart

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Re: When did CCS tube the Spotsman classes?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2011, 10:16:56 am »
I think some of you pricks need to realize that there is a difference between being cheap and racing what a person can afford. 

You have every right to pay your entry and race what you can afford as long as it meets satety standards.

What the hell gives you the right to dictate that rules should be changed to make what you can afford as the leading equipment in the class ?  The rules have been unchanged for 5+ years, now because you want to win more races our bikes should be come illegal?  That just reduces YOUR competition, it doesn't increse the grids what-so-ever.

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