Four suspension Problems

[Lowe119]

Okay, so the way I see it there are 4 problems I could have with my suspension.

Binding = not enough rebound and too much compression damper
Bouncing = to much rebound and not enough compression
bottoming = not enough spring rate
sag = which I'm not too worried about  ;)

So I've heard a lot about these things, But I don't know what they feel like when I go out on the track.... I'm not too worried about my preload or sag, but how does it feel when the dampening is off???  What do the forks feel like when they start binding up? I'm on the gas coming out anyway, so how can I tell???   ???

I'm just looking for feelings on suspension adjustments...  I know I took a few things light (like sag), but I want to know about the stuff I asked about. (although any suspension feedback is appreciatted  :D)

[james-redsv]

Bouncing = not enough rebound

[james-redsv]

Bouncing = not enough rebound, binding = too much rebound. You are confused about how rebound works. Bouncing is obvious, its like riding a bucking horse coming into corners and getting back on the gas. When the forks bottom out coming into a corner the front tire will start to slid and chatter. Too much compression and stiffness in the rear will cause the rear to break loose easier than it should. The same goes for too much stiffness and compression in the front. Too little rear ride height will make the bike run wide, not hold a line and the front tire will chatter midturn on fast sweepers. Too much rear height will cause the bike to turn to the inside and not hold a line. Hope all this helps. 8)

[Baltobuell]

 I think the only place to start is Sag, right out of the owners manual. It's important so the suspension will travel through the whole length it was intended.
 Then set everything to stock settings for a place to begin. Put a ziptie on the fork to see if you're using the whole compression phase of that. If it bottoms out increase compression dampening, if it's not moving too much decrease it till you get almost to the point of bottoming but Not. You want the rebound to return quick enough to help with the bumps and get the tire back down but slow enough to remain stable in transitions. If it's bouncing add rebound dampening. Then have somebody hold you up and bounce on the pegs, if the front and rear are acting about even,  that's a good place to start, adjust the rear to make it about even. But don't overlook sag, Everything is useless without that first adjustment, since sag is where it all starts.
 That's how I do it but hopefully Dave will chime in.

[rick]

I agree! The first thing you should set, and arguably the most important thing,  is your sag. Once you have that dialed in you can worry about rebound and compression damping. The idea is for your bike to settle about 25% of the way through it's total suspension travel when you're on it.

Here's a couple links:
2wf.com - The not so fine art of suspension.
circuit1.com - Suspension tuning guide.

[Super Dave]

I'll got at this from a different route.  First, the static geometry has to be set.  That will allow for proper anti-squat at the rear with the correct swingarm angle/rear axle/swingarm pivot/countershaft geometry.  That, along with fork height, will set the static trail of the bike.  That has to do with feel.

Next, the correct spring must be selected.  If you just set the sag and the spring is correct, it won't support the bike loaded with all the traction that is available.  

If the static geometry is not correct, then the weight bias won't be correct and even if you had the correct springs, the trail and anti-squat wouldn't work in your favor.

Sag really is just kind of like loaded geometry.  There's a window, but it still has a variance to account for different situations.  If you set the "rider" sag with the incorrect springs, the bike won't work right.

Dampening...well, too much is wrong and can make you crash.  Too little is annoying, but probably won't make you crash.  

[Thingy]

Dampening...well, too much is wrong and can make you crash.  Too little is annoying, but probably won't make you crash.  

Hmmmm....  Thanks Dave.  I enjoy learning the real world physics explanations that you teach us.  And I REALLY enjoy trying to relate that knowledge to your generalizations that come from personal experience.  

[Super Dave]

Thanks, Thingie...

This weekend I was amused by all my children that were relating all their compression and rebound changes to me when really they should have been looking at spring rate, preload, fork height, and shock length.

You going to be at RA on Thursday AM?  Brian coming too?

[Thingy]

Soopah Dave-

I hope to come up to RA for Thursday.  I have A LOT of work to do up there.  However, my real work may change my plans.  I will get there eventually.  Brian will be there but will be doing limited wrenching.  See you there!

[Dawn]

This weekend I was amused by all my children that were relating all their compression and rebound changes to me when really they should have been looking at spring rate, preload, fork height, and shock length.

LOL!!!

Them darn kid's they never listen.

Dawn   ;D

PS  If my big kid doesn't, just let me know.  I'll get after him.   ;) :) ;D

[Super Dave]

Paul doesn't complain too much.  Might not be complaining enough.  Sometimes, you don't know if it can be better unless you make a change.