ultralite

[Ducmarc]

we raced each other for years and eveyone knows the 900 is a POS so why not give it a class that it can hide from the bimota hoard too.

[MACOP1104]

no....

[George_Linhart]

NO.  Changing the rulebook any further and diluting the class any more is just a really bad idea.

Remember when Lightweight was full of FZR400's, Honda Hawk's and EX 500's?  Then came the SV650 which displaced those bikes as it was just that much better.

As I recall, the rules always allowed air cooled 2 valve motors to have up to 1200 CCS of displacement in LW - but - to compete against the SV's you really needed to go to the 944 kit put in cams and do some head work to get better breathing in the motor.  As a result, while some dedicated Ducati guys would spend the bucks building their 900SS to be competitive the grids were pretty much full of relatively stock SV's that were cheap and required very little maintenance.

Then Buell comes into the mix - Eric put an innovative chassis around the old-school Harley motor and with the contingency it became very popular.  Not quite as cheep to buy as an SV and they needed maintenance - but pretty much stone hammer technology and in the hands of a decent rider the contingency could easily pay for the parts and work.  From what I saw they actually had good support at the track so it was not hard to get parts when the motor did go BOOM. Again, it was an air-cooled 2 valve engine and was allowed up to 1200 CCs of displacement.

About the same time Ducati released the "evolution" of the 900SS, the 1000SS.  Still an air cooled 2 valve motor but with the longer stroke increased displacement to 992 CCs and the dual spark head and stock cams gave this motor the breathing that the 900SS lacked stock.  These bikes did well in the class as they were lighter and could out-handle the Buel's while they had more torque and HP than the SS legal SVs.  Unfortunately not as good of factory contingency suppport - although the "race only" models in 2004/2005 + an increased focus on contingency brought a number of these bikes to the grid.

All these changes seems to have brought on an arms race in the LW class -SV's went superbike and at 90 BHP the crank (the weak link) started to fail due to flexing.  The 1000SS guys started dropping in 1080 kits and loading the bikes up with titanium & carbon fiber - as with all Ducati's the Desmo valves need lots of care and attention (especially with lots of heat which shortened the life especially on the exhaust valve guides).  Buells riders built with more compression in the motors and lifespan of the power plant became even shorter, but again with the contingency support it would make sense for a good rider.

Now - given the complaints from the SV crowd Kevin allows the SV's to go to Ultralightweight class.  I thought this was a huge mistake.  A well prepared SV with a good rider is still more than competitive in LW - its just that I think a lot of the SV guys generally don't want to build the bikes to the extent this would require (cost + maintenance).  OK - I see economically that Kevin needs to keep these SV guys from leaving entirely, so maybe (just maybe) from a financial perspective giving them UltraLW to dominate is logical.

Given that I was not a fan of allowing the SV's into UltraLW - my opinion is that further diluting this class by allowing other "big bore" LW bikes into the mix only makes the problem worse.  Where does it end?  Do we let pre 1992 in-line 4 bikes into the class next year?  What about the argument of letting the 748 and 749 into LW - then to you go ahead and allow the 1000SS and Buells into UltraLW too?  Rules should not be changed to give outdated machinery a new class to dominate.  If you want to run up front and your current bike isn't competitive in the class you either need to buy a bike that is competitive or just learn how to ride better so you can get back up front.

I hear your pain, but, Florida seems to be the only market where the Bimota is an issue.  Perhaps Chris Boy has just been too successful finding deep pocketed riders and pushing the brand?  I don't know, but rewriting the rulebook to suit your needs is just not a good idea.  Buy a 750/800 SS (or an SV) and right Ultra LW.  Buy and 1098R and run Unlimited.  I don't care what you do - but don't completely upset the rulebook for everyone just to serve your needs is not the right thing to do.

George

[RuschRacing23]

Stock SV's in Ultralight was a completely acceptable decision. Ducatis in ULW.....Now thats moronic. Its hard enough to keep up with these "1000 Supersport" Ducatis as it is (even with BUILT SV's) down the straights, why would they try and put it up against stock SV's. It just doesnt make sense. I can count the many times I was walked super hard by those lame ducatis on straightaways and i would say Im a better then average SV rider and the dudes on Ducatis were average. Now put an average rider on a Stock SV and theres no race. Ducati wins by miles even if they arent the better rider. Hows this fair? Its not. DONT CHANGE THE RULES! Lets all just get 600's?

[MACOP1104]

The air cooled 1000/1200 should have never been allowed in ltwss, only in ltwsb and ltwgp with with ss motor mods but slicks allowed.  Too late to change that but letting them creep into ulwsb would be bad.  I raced with WERA at VIR 2 weeks ago and had a blast in the ltwt classes.  All the machines were on an equal playing field and grids were big.  They alllow Duc 800s in the ltwt classes and the HP is equal with the SV.

[Cowboy 6]

The air cooled 1000/1200 should have never been allowed in ltwss, only in ltwsb and ltwgp with with ss motor mods but slicks allowed.  Too late to change that but letting them creep into ulwsb would be bad.  I raced with WERA at VIR 2 weeks ago and had a blast in the ltwt classes.  All the machines were on an equal playing field and grids were big.  They alllow Duc 800s in the ltwt classes and the HP is equal with the SV.

Love to hear a voice of reason....

[SVbadguy]

Anybody have a rulebook from around 1997 or so?  For some reason I'm thinking 1000cc twins weren't allowed in any LW classes back then.

[MACOP1104]

back then it wash Honda Hawks, FZR400s, EX500s in lightweight.  Not sure about the Ducati 750 and 900ss bikes

[CounterSteerer]

What does a stock SV650 make for HP just over 70HP?
What does a stock Ducati 900 make for HP around 78HP?
I don't see the big deal if these are the right numbers.
But after saying that I do to tend to agree with George. I have seen built SV's making 115HP at the rear wheel. If you have the cubic dollars you can make anything faster. But the way the economy is today I can understand the unwillingness plus like George said; where does it stop. You cant please everybody all the time.

[MACOP1104]

115hp with stock bore and stroke?  that's what SVs are limited to in ultralightweight.

[Gino230]

I tend to agree with George, I rode a 750SS in LW against Honda Hawks and later, SVs. Now I ride a 1000SS against Buell 1200s and Bimota 1100s. That is just progress, I think, since performance is always going to be improving on these "entry level" bikes that are used for racing in LW. Messing with the rulebook just so the Bimota won't dominate is not the answer.

Supersport SV in ULW I don't think is that bad, there are 800 Ducs and those are pretty competitive with the Honda Hawk, etc. I haven't even seen an EX500 in years so I'm not sure why people keep bringing those up. If I still had my old 750, it would be eligible for vintage!

The bottom line is that this is club racing, there will always be someone with deep pockets who buys / modifies their equipment to the MAX- sometimes those people will be hard to beat.

[Doctor]

ULW is full of SV Superbikes, not many of us run Supersport bikes there anymore.