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BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.

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racerhall

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2010, 04:33:10 pm »
for 200 bucks i can do a track day and do as much riding or more than doing a ccs race weekend, a  ccs race weekend is  500 bucks in entries plus tires plus race gas plus hotel if away plus gate fee and so on, what is the result in the end? the same i walk away with nothing for winning races and i walk away with nothing at the end of the day at a track day, at the last track day at blackhawk their was like 150 people and at the last race their was only 85 people or so, i forgot to mention that your trackday guy has a stock bike and i have over 20k ineach of my bikes, i now make nothing back from just about every sponsor, if ccs wants more racers then go to the track days and promote its that easy, track days are cheap risk free easy fun, racing is risky expensive not always fun time, the  safty is the same at both as far as i can see
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Super Dave

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2010, 05:53:22 pm »
I'll expand on Brian's end too.

The schedule is more open ended.  So, a rider doesn't have to follow a particular series.  Follow you friends to another place with no regard to points.  Sure, maybe there's a "membership fee" with some, but it is still less expensive than most racing licenses.  Tired of "racing" at one place?  Go be a regular someplace else.  Or travel over the winter.  While "On Any Sunday" one can find someone racing, there can be a track day.  But weekday scheduling for trackdays appear to be bad scheduling opportunities, they are opportunities that a lot of individuals seem to get plenty of time off to do.

Do we need to talk about a lack of rules structure?  Run it!  Pretty much open classed stuff.  No worry about air filters passing tech. 

Sponsorships?  Yeah, so this seems to be an easy one.  No one would get sponsored for a trackday, but there is a market there for some of those regulars and control riders for industry support. 

No, there isn't any press, really, following a trackday.  But there isn't for Blackhawk either.  Compare that to:
Fasttrax :  http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=41551
LRRS...loosing riders, but doing better than some:  http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=41556
CMRA:  http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=41555

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HAWK

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2010, 06:23:02 pm »
Supposedly if you are  caught "racing" your buddy at a trackday it's an automatic end to your day, admittedly not always enforced. Trackdays are siphoning off the riders that used to go racing, note that word RIDERS. If you are a racer and are happy at a trackday more power to you but I'm sorry, I just don't have any fun at a trackday. Sure, I'll use them to break in a motor or get some tracktime to test some new setup but that's only because I just don't have time to do it in 2 10 minute practice sessions at a race weekend.

Are there riders at trackdays that could become racers if exposed to the bug, yes, and they need to be courted but trackdays are not the problem. To boot if Racing continues to bash the Trackday community I can tell you right now who's going to win that fight.
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xb12racerX

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2010, 09:05:26 pm »
I think you're all missing the main reason. Most people just don't have the expendable income anymore. Most that race are not making enough in contingency money, if any at all, to offset the cost.
I chose to sit this year out due to my son starting his freshman year at a private High School, that after all is said and done, is costing me close to $10,000 a year. I may not race next season either, depending on the economy.
I also have friends that ride track days, and the overwhelming response I get when I try to steer them toward racing is they feel they get more for their money at a track day, track time wise. 
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R1Racer99

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2010, 02:56:37 am »
for 200 bucks i can do a track day and do as much riding or more than doing a ccs race weekend, a  ccs race weekend is  500 bucks in entries plus tires plus race gas plus hotel if away plus gate fee and so on, what is the result in the end? the same i walk away with nothing for winning races and i walk away with nothing at the end of the day at a track day, at the last track day at blackhawk their was like 150 people and at the last race their was only 85 people or so, i forgot to mention that your trackday guy has a stock bike and i have over 20k ineach of my bikes, i now make nothing back from just about every sponsor, if ccs wants more racers then go to the track days and promote its that easy, track days are cheap risk free easy fun, racing is risky expensive not always fun time, the  safty is the same at both as far as i can see

You summed it up pretty well there, that pretty much explains what I'm thinking right now, if I made six figures I wouldn't worry about dropping a grand for a weekend of racing but I don't make that much money and the pay-off doesn't seem worth the costs at this point. But considering what you said, why do you still race as much as you do?
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Sobottka

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2010, 07:59:26 am »
You summed it up pretty well there, that pretty much explains what I'm thinking right now, if I made six figures I wouldn't worry about dropping a grand for a weekend of racing but I don't make that much money and the pay-off doesn't seem worth the costs at this point. But considering what you said, why do you still race as much as you do?
why do birds fly? ....i cant speak for brian but for me the pay-off is the challenge/satisfaction (and frustration!) you only get from racing. the whole price per lap comparison with track days totally misses the point. thats like saying masterbating is cheaper than sex  :err:
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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2010, 08:27:21 am »
Almost seems like you make the racing a track day and the track day a race.... Less racing, but better payout, and more track riding for those not wanting to race. If you can't beat the track days, join them, but put on show while you are doing it for those who want to race.  A track day/racing event where the race is kind of a show for the track day people and regular spectators. 

I don't know. Just thinking out loud.

And I thought I was the only genius. I see this as the plan of the future. Open your business model to bring in this growing community of riders while exposing them to our racing first hand. Their numbers help pay the bills and I'm sure we'll win more converts at the same time.

Look at the Gateway CCS rounds. The Saturday trackday sells out, then the paddock turns into a ghost town for Sunday's races. What if we were able to combine the two days, offering trackday riders a weekend trackday, while mixing in races throughout. We could all enjoy that. We would have to cut the number of classes I'm sure and someone will always complain, but I would rather evolve than cease to exist. We don't need 3 classes per bike, especially if we have some trackday riders picking up some of the tab that less classes to enter may affect. Everyone has their opinions but I would happily pay a LITTLE more for less and longer races. The trackday sessions could fill in between the races.
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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2010, 08:28:25 am »
the whole price per lap comparison with track days totally misses the point. thats like saying masterbating is cheaper than sex  :err:

Perfectly said...
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benprobst

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2010, 08:40:54 am »
And I thought I was the only genius. I see this as the plan of the future. Open your business model to bring in this growing community of riders while exposing them to our racing first hand. Their numbers help pay the bills and I'm sure we'll win more converts at the same time.

Look at the Gateway CCS rounds. The Saturday trackday sells out, then the paddock turns into a ghost town for Sunday's races. What if we were able to combine the two days, offering trackday riders a weekend trackday, while mixing in races throughout. We could all enjoy that. We would have to cut the number of classes I'm sure and someone will always complain, but I would rather evolve than cease to exist. We don't need 3 classes per bike, especially if we have some trackday riders picking up some of the tab that less classes to enter may affect. Everyone has their opinions but I would happily pay a LITTLE more for less and longer races. The trackday sessions could fill in between the races.

MCRA already does that on saturday, though you will lose a lot of trackday guys who dont want to wait around for the racers. But we put on 2-3 races a day and 7 strong TD sessions and it ends up not being to bad for the track day folks. Much more than that and they start losing tracktime and you start losing customers. If people are ok with traveling for one or two big races then great, but with as many racers that seem to race on the side and whine as a profession, they will complain they cant compete because of bike/lack of classes/ no talent.
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tstruyk

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2010, 09:17:15 am »
Quote
but with as many racers that seem to race on the side and whine as a profession...

this my friend is why I heart you!   :lmao:

yeah the trackday/race day combo is good in theory but it will more than likely boil down to "you cant make everyone happy"

the cost per lap argument SHOULDN'T matter to the racers... thats not what its about (but as been so eloquently put it... to some it is)  However with the TD guys it absolutely will.  You already hear grumblings around the paddock at the MCRA events about "that damn 'try the track'/racer school/race' is eating into MY track time"

to have enough races put on to keep all the classes happy (combine more classes, everyone runs superbike and throw in a nice purse?) AND to keep enough TD sessions available to keep the lappers happy is really going to be a tough one, unless more tracks bring in lighting...
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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2010, 10:35:18 am »
Why is it the tires, fuel, other maintence items never come up in the track day discussions? Do you not need  those things to attend track days? All I hear is $200 for a track day ..........nothing else. But for a race weekend I hear, tires, fuel, gate fees, hotels, etc. etc.

All TD riders need tires, fuel, brake pads, oil, filters, everything a racer needs for a weekend. And, many stay in motels, eat out, etc. So, how is this so much cheaper than racing?

The racers complain that they can't make any money racing...... let us remember this is club racing, it was never meant to be a money making deal. Yes the manufacturers were throwing money at contingency programs back in the late 80's and 90's and early 00's at the hey day of club racing but those days are over.  The economy has tanked and it will be quite awhile before it recovers.

Brian, not pointing fingers here but you state you have over $20K invested in each of your race bikes? Why would you continue to do this when you know there is no support anymore? You knew the economy was tanked  when this season started. It was no secret there were no contingencies to be had this year and every sponsor was pulling back on their support. I've heard of several racers who decided to pull out completely due to this. Riders that actually were making some money racing before the collapse.No sense in spending big money for no return.

Also, I don't see that CCS is the culprit here either. Over the years I have had several run ins with Kevin and crew but this time.... I see it as an economy issue. Sure CCS may be able to make some changes as they just did but, damn, this one is off their back.  CCS does not control contingencies from the manufacturers. They also can't pay prize money if the grids aren't there to help finance it. It's a Catch 22 for them.

Do they need to listen a little better to their customers? Yes, The vote for the ROC venue may be a good point. The vote went to HPT but CCS went to Homestead............???? That is probably due to the Daytona machine owning the track. I'm quite sure there was a bit of influence by ISC to have the race moved to another of their venues rather than somewhere else. If not, then it was a huge faux pas by CCS to ignore the wishes of the riders in this case.

I don't have a dog in this fight, just spewing my little .02 cents in the matter. So, I will  now leave this for the rest of you to sort out. I'll sit here at my computer and watch.

Oh, and I hope to see ALL of you at the Red Flag auction.

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benprobst

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Re: BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2010, 11:05:27 am »
Youre not trying to win a trackday. So you dont need fresh rubber, race fuel and the 4-700 race entries arent there either. Just tires and race fuel is going to save a fast race 1000-1500 dollars a weekend depending on how much he is running. Take a guy running like Brian, youre looking at 2-3 sets of tires and at least 10 gallons of fuel. Lets say the fast guy is getting support and is only paying 350 for a set of dunlops late in the year after his alotment is gone, he doesnt have contingency because the grids suck, so out comes the cash. Thats 700-1050 in tires and 250 dollars in fuel compared to 30 dollars in fuel and 0 in tires at a trackday.
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