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Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF

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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2010, 02:14:20 pm »
I see quite a few 20 somethings riding around on $20K+ bikes and $40K+ cars/trucks around here. Most just dont have a care to even go to a race much less compete. I'm seeing more and more stretched & lowered liter bikes on the street here (yet 90% probably will never set a tire on a drag strip either). Hell I'm looking into going back to racing open wheel cars.
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Rob
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CCS

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2010, 04:43:20 pm »
Just so you all have an idea exactly what we are dealing with and why entry fees are what they are.

For a 2 day event at regional track:
Track rent for the average weekend is $20k to $24k,
racing insurance (liability and participant accident) $7k,
2 ambulances $2.5k to $3.5k
Trophies $2k
corner workers $3k to $5k
staff $8k to $10k
Scoring system $1k
Average weekend Cost $42k to $50k

Average CCS entry is $65 per class
Takes 615 entries to break event
Current CCS average 515 entries

Today, CCS is a non-profit entity, just without tax-exempt status

I'm sure I've missed some smaller expenses like postage, printing, flags, radios, uniforms, computers, printers, paper, etc. and I did not add credential fees since most tracks split those in some way with us anyway.

Track days usually do not have the same insurance cost, weekday rent is lower, cornerworkers at 1 per corner are 1/2 of what we pay, only 4-6 people on staff, no trophies, no scoring system, 1 ambulance, etc., etc., that is why they can offer the time for $165 and the equivalent track time for racing is between $200 and $250

« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 04:47:13 pm by CCS »
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Kevin Elliott
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J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2010, 06:25:19 pm »
Good deal pointing that out Kevin.
Many people do not understand the scope of running a racing organization.

I'm doing my best to get more people involved in the sport. We need to come up with some outside the box thinking. Times are tough but I know there are plenty of trackday riders & street riders in general who need to get more info on the sport of road racing.

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J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2010, 06:46:34 pm »
 :thumb:
Got 3 guys signing up for Learning Curves already!
Let see. If I could do that in a few hours...... How many in a week?
 :boink:
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HAWK

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #76 on: August 09, 2010, 09:39:37 pm »
Kevin,

I never meant to imply that the cost to participate in CCS events was unreasonable. Only that it is more than many can afford right now. I have never felt that entry fees are too much, I just need to pace myself budget wise right now.

I would like to see the gate fees lowered though. It is really tough to get new people out to see what we do when you have to tell them that it's going to cost them $25 to get in and watch. I didn't mention this to people at first thinking that it is what it is but then after getting an earful from them I started to tell them what it was going to cost to get through the gate and nobody comes.
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Paul Onley
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twilkinson3

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #77 on: August 09, 2010, 11:14:12 pm »
Hawk does have a good point - maybe for 2011 we could see about working out a spectator day pass? Assuming we might be going back to 2 race days a weekend.  I've heard there were problems in the past but say a $10 a day spectator pass could be worked out with the track we might talk a few more iffy folks into coming to watch...which would lead to wanting to participate - just a thought
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truckstop

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2010, 01:59:44 am »
X and I aren't racing this year because of health insurance issues which should be solved for next year. We're also broke partially because of his liter bike experiment.

Anyhoo... we haven't spectated at all this season partially because he's busy racing bicycles now, but also because $35 ($70 for the two of us) is kind of expensive to go hang out and torture ourselves because we can't race. I mean, we love you guys and miss our track friends like crazy, and $70 is a bargain compared to what a weekend costs to race, but it's hard to justify. (We'd come for just Sunday and pay less, but all the fun is Saturday nights.)

We'll see y'all for the Red Flag Fund Auction though. Can't miss that.
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GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2010, 01:01:00 pm »
I started a new business 2 years ago as this whole economic mess was starting to kick into gear, I knew even before that I would miss 2 or 3 seasons of racing as a result - so for me, not participating right now is not because of the economy but because I'm dumping everything I have into building my business. Many people may not know this, but tough times are the #1 time new businesses are started. Why? Because people find ways to do things better, cheaper, more efficiently, etc while many established businesses continue doing things as they always have (which can easily lead to their failure in tough times). My shop did not require a loan, we have a location which has great accessibility and proximity to a large extended population, we have low operating costs, and a great reputation for the work we do (the absolute majority of our new work comes thru referrals from customers we've already done work for).

We need to come up with some outside the box thinking. Times are tough but I know there are plenty of trackday riders & street riders in general who need to get more info on the sport of road racing.

The phrase "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" comes to mind. We need more Track Day riders to realize it's not that difficult to make the jump to Racing. What if CCS started hosting Track Days the day before race weekends similar to what Track Addix did? Track Day rates for those without a race license could be priced competitive with other Track Day org's. Offer free or greatly discounted gate passes to that weekends races for non-racer participants of the Track Day (even to spectators of the Track Day). Also offer some free (or GREATLY reduced) race entries for those who are willing to try racing - for example 6 race entries for $100, enough races that they can get their head into what racing's all about. Possibly put a limit of 2 or 3 of these passes used per event so they will return for at least a 2nd or 3rd event (if they want to run more races on those weekends they could pay the current 3rd race class rate).

The day could be divided into 3 groups per hour :
Group 1 (licensed Expert Racers / Faster Amateur Racers & non-racers approved for the group)
Group 2 (intermediate paced licensed Racers & non-racers approved for the group)
Group 3 (new / slower / lesser experienced riders)

Advancement to a faster group comes from an evaluation of your riding ability by a control rider, once you get approved your status is upgraded thru registration for future events (but can also be lowered back if deemed necessary). Control Riders could be some of the Expert Racers who are already going to be there for the race event, for example they could get assigned a certain amount of sessions to control ride in exchange for free time on the track that day.

It's not like the current 'Racer Only' practice days are packed, this might be the little push those Track Day riders who are the fence about racing need to make the jump. As long as hosting something like this wasn't a loss economically it could potentially pay dividends thru adding new racers to CCS.

That's my 'outside the box' idea.  :thumb:
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ChitownNexus

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2010, 02:15:07 pm »
:thumb:
Got 3 guys signing up for Learning Curves already!
Let see. If I could do that in a few hours...... How many in a week?
 :boink:

Could LCR ever be any cheaper?  I know you get the "race license" included in the cost, but really shouldn't CCS licensing be cheaper?  Just wondering since you really are not learning to ride.  The time is more focused on learning the flags, rules, and regs of racing. 

Just wondering and my random thoughts.
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Super Dave

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #81 on: August 10, 2010, 06:25:15 pm »
What if CCS started hosting Track Days the day before race weekends similar to what Track Addix did? Track Day rates for those without a race license could be priced competitive with other Track Day org's.
How did Trackaddix do?  How did CCS do with their trackday programs?  On the flip side, how is MCRA doing with that?


It's not like the current 'Racer Only' practice days are packed, this might be the little push those Track Day riders who are the fence about racing need to make the jump. As long as hosting something like this wasn't a loss economically it could potentially pay dividends thru adding new racers to CCS.
The "racer only" practice days are actually racer only because the insurance required for those days is less because it is for those that hold a competition license compared to those that have no competition license.

The flip side is that any trackday rider could go to an approved school and get any kind of a motorcycle competition license and take advantage of those days rather than race.  Doesn't happen often, but it has and will continue to happen. 
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twilkinson3

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #82 on: August 10, 2010, 10:58:25 pm »
So what if the price was hgiher (but not outrageous) if you weren't racing that weekend for the trackday, in other words if you prereg and add the track day the cost is x and the cost is y if you aren't racing

It's an interesting idea and if remotely feasible could possible create an additional revenue stream into CCS to defray some of the costs for running the racing org, if that in turn reduced the cost to enter (at some point) and made racing more accessible to folks with smaller budgets....win win - but that's probably an idealistic view..... probably missed a few gotchas
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gonecrazy

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Re: Where the hell was everybody yesterday? BHF
« Reply #83 on: August 10, 2010, 11:12:37 pm »
How did Trackaddix do?  How did CCS do with their trackday programs?  On the flip side, how is MCRA doing with that?


Dave we are(the MCRA) doing pretty good with it. biggest think is we have our own little challenge series with a sportsman race for entry level racers to get there feet wet and they are making the jump. 1. we figure out how to get them to the track 2. even if they spectate or are still unsure about getting on the track we offer the "test the track" program to help hook them into full trackdays.3. then from there we have the school which now learning curves is doing during our trackdays.4 after there school we sudgest the sportsman race or am gt races.(these guys come out and what to mix it up with there buddies and a regular trackday is no where for that)5. on into grid up in to amature races. Its kind of like a 5 step program and takes away the "im not fast enough to race" idea they have in there head. For me, I just cant get the same rush riding in a trackday as i do racing, so the money spent for racing is well worth it to me more so than a trackday.
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