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Bimotas in LW SS...

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MACOP1104

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2010, 08:10:24 pm »

Leave the rules as they are and "Run what you brung". Let's race.

LW Formula 1 Supersport?  Run what you brung is great for superbike but not supersport.  With WERA, the air cooled 1000s-1200s have nowhere to race and that stinks.  What I am suggesting is keeping them out of LWSS and let them race LWSB and LWTGP.  Not just the Bimotas, the Buells and the Ducs too. 
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roadracer162

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2010, 07:54:47 am »
In truth, Supersport isn't stock. What I am saying is when that SV rider builds that SS machine that runs with and beats that Bimota or whatever, that Bimota owner shouldn't complain about that SV.
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

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MACOP1104

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2010, 08:12:16 am »
In truth, Supersport isn't stock. What I am saying is when that SV rider builds that SS machine that runs with and beats that Bimota or whatever, that Bimota owner shouldn't complain about that SV.

The Bimota rider has nothing to complain about.  Build a SS legal SV and with MR12 in it you will have between 80-83 HP.  Do the same with a DUC/Bimota motor and what would you have?   I'd love to see the HP and torque curves of these two bikes overlayed on the same graph.
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MACOP1104

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2010, 08:32:29 am »
Found some dyno sheets.  Typical 2nd gen SV with SS mods has 80-83HP and 49 ft lbs of torque.  The Ducati motor with a pipe and DP ECU made 86HP and 70 ft lbs of torque.  Do a full SS build on a Bimota/Ducati and with race fuel those numbers go up by 8-10% easy.  IMO, way too much for the class....
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Cowboy 6

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2010, 08:51:09 am »
When you go to LW Superbike, the gap gets even larger....
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C6

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roadracer162

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2010, 09:37:20 am »
I am not disputing that the Bimota is a class killer especially in SS class. I am with your thinking or at least on the same lines. The rules were not changed to allow the Bimota into the SS class but instead Bimota built a bike using the Ducati motor that fits that class. I honestly feel that a 1000 anything does not equate to a lightweight. Reality is the class exists as it is with the current rules that have been in place for quite some time.

In theory, a rider that has the money to spend either on a high dollar bike or for high dollar upgrades has that perogative to spend big bucks. I don't have the big bucks to put into a machine but I have spent the most I have ever spent into a race bike. Come to find out it isn't all that much compared to others building the SV machine.

Let's talk hp. My Ducati 800 produced 87hp on a Superflow dyno-I saw it. When I race against those SV's my bike is dead even to those SS spec SV in a staright line. After speaking to the owner/rider of that SV I learned that his SV produces 84hp. My bike is considered a SB and his is considered a SS. I have also raced against some other 1st gen SV's that reportedly produced 80hp and my bike just couldn't keep up with-they have high comp pistons and flatslides. The Bimota on the same dyno that mine was tested produces somewhere in the neighborhood of 95-100hp.

I believe that one of the big benefits of the Bimota is the lightweight machine. The Bimota essentially uses the same motor as the Ducati DS or Hyper-motard. The Hyper-motard does have a lighter motor so I would guess the Bimota does the same. I am sure there are guys out there on the Duc doing that mod that an SV rider nver knows about.

In the end I believe that with a surplus of disposable money any bike could be made faster, lighter and more competent. Ed Key and his machines are inspirational. 288lbs and 80+ hp...I wonder how much his bikes cost.

I love my Ducati 800. It is a lot of fun to ride and I get a kick out of riding it against the big bikes and doing well. I will continue to develop it and lighten it as much as possible. Some tell me it isn't worth it but for me it is a challenge.
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

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apriliaman

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2010, 10:34:58 am »
my SV 650 is a real SS it has 75hp,385lbs with a full tank and i still get blown away in the straights.I dont know what i can do to get more then 80 hp as a supersport.I can have my engine balanced ,but how much would that be and how much more power do you really get.
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MACOP1104

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2010, 11:21:48 am »
my SV 650 is a real SS it has 75hp,385lbs with a full tank and i still get blown away in the straights.I dont know what i can do to get more then 80 hp as a supersport.I can have my engine balanced ,but how much would that be and how much more power do you really get.

A 2nd Gen SS SV with milled heads/thin head gasket, a good valve job, LEO or M4 pipe, and mapped for oxygenated fuel will have 80 + HP. 

I have no problem with the Duc 800.  I have heard a supersport Duc 800 can put out about 78-80 HP.  More or less comparable to a SS SV. 

IMO, WERA does it right.  no 1000-1200 air cooled twins in SS.  They are allowed in SBK and F2 with SS mods only. 
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twilkinson3

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2010, 01:50:55 pm »
Quote
I have also raced against some other 1st gen SV's that reportedly produced 80hp and my bike just couldn't keep up with-they have high comp pistons and flatslides.

High Comp pistons and/or flatslides aren't SS legal tho on a gen1 sv, reality is your average gen1 sv makes 68-70hp and a gen2 makes about 5 more in untouched form...if the motors are fresh
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Cowboy 6

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2010, 01:57:05 pm »
A 2nd Gen SS SV with milled heads/thin head gasket, a good valve job, LEO or M4 pipe, and mapped for oxygenated fuel will have 80 + HP. 

I have no problem with the Duc 800.  I have heard a supersport Duc 800 can put out about 78-80 HP.  More or less comparable to a SS SV. 

IMO, WERA does it right.  no 1000-1200 air cooled twins in SS.  They are allowed in SBK and F2 with SS mods only. 

+1

That is a great and competitive classing arrangement.  Ducati fans save a ton of cash on mods too!
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C6

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George_Linhart

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2010, 05:09:26 pm »
+1

That is a great and competitive classing arrangement.  Ducati fans save a ton of cash on mods too!

What on earth makes you think that all of us Duciti Racers want to save on modifications?  One of the things I actually like about the Ducati SS line of bikes are all of the creative and inventive things that can go into a superbike design.  I haven't been trying to push the envelope too far, but I have had fun doing a bunch of different things between power, handling & weight loss.

It would be no different if I had an SV - I just DO NOT WANT and SV.  I think the ultimate expression of a Superbike SV has been done already by a couple of folks.  To me it is much more interesting to work off of a different template.

Ultimately, if you want to win in Superbike, build a Superbike. 

How hard is that to figure out?
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roadracer162

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Re: Bimotas in LW SS...
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2010, 08:58:06 pm »
High Comp pistons and/or flatslides aren't SS legal tho on a gen1 sv, reality is your average gen1 sv makes 68-70hp and a gen2 makes about 5 more in untouched form...if the motors are fresh

I was merely pointing out that hp has nothing to do with being faster, at least in my real world comparisons. What I have seen on SS SV's locally being raced is 72hp for a relatively stock motor. I am sure a good SS build could get some more-ram air possibly? If I remember correctly Ed Key's SS build produces 80hp. Check RRW page 82. I know of at least one SV that has $4K in the motor, undercut trans, balanced crank, milled heads and some other work I can't remember.

Just saying there is more that can be done. Building a Ducati anything isn't cheap.

Mark- I don't know how reliable the bathroom scale is but I did it today on the Ducati 800. 170# on the front and 165# on the rear. Total that number gives a reading of 335# with maybe 1 gallon of fuel. 385# for the SV sounds pretty heavy considering it is listed being lighter than the Ducati in street form.
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.