why do races get cut short on laps

[GAMEDIC]

I talked to Kevin today...and looking back to the start of this..they did tell us we would have them in place by june or july but the extra would start at the first of the season..now after talking to Kevin today he said they seem to be doing better than the thought and may have them out to us by may...he also said that he did have transponders for VIR..just didn't have any brackets and didn't want them just taped to the bikes.. so maybe we will have them by North Florida... if not then by RRR... just thought i would pass this on after talking to him today

[speedmax]

Well....guess I'll just wait until they are out before I sign up for any races this year....at least I won't have paid for something and not get it. >:-)
CCS simply WASTES too much money on "other expenses" Fees keep going up, track time keeps going down, more classes keep getting added, and we always seem to have SOME circus side show (Scooters, or legend cars) wasting our track time!
AT LEAST if they shorted races...they should give back a pro rated portion of your fees! Cut a GT race in half....give 1/2 the entry fees back!
CCS NEVER looses out on entry fees (unless you have a problem BEFORE you tech your bike ?!?!?!) But the riders ALWAYS loose out on track time.

[Super Dave]

How many races does CRA run per year and in how many regions of the country?

Yeah, they only run two tracks and have a few races.  But that's all they want to do.

But they have transponders and lower entry costs even though their insurance costs are much higher than the costs paid per day that CCE can get.

Back to Scooters...

How many are we getting there at BFR?  Twenty?  At $100 a crack, let's guess, CCE is bringing in a full $2000 into the purse.

CCS racers at Blackhawk enter what 600 races at about an average of $50 an entry?  $30,000.  The extra $2k is nothing.  Were getting cut short, period.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

    I was unaware of this, was that in a mailer or something?

I didnt see it mentioned in the mailer. I heard about that during a cornerworkers meeting. Its just for Blackhawk as far as I know. Turn 4 in particular and hopefully turn 5 will get them also.

[CCS]

Ray and Mike have been talking about acquiring Airfence for 6-7 months, after they found out the associated costs of shipping the Roadracing World Action Fund Airfence around, and realizing that at some motorcycle events it wouldn't be available. We were very up-front with them on the cost of set-up/tear-down and maintenance, and they decided they would rather have control of their own destiny, so to speak. I agreed with them.

Yes, the cost of transportation/set-up/tear-down at Road America is $3,000, that doesn't include purchase price of the Airfence modules.

Dave, who said we weren't having transponders at Road America? You should ask me when you have a question like that. If Fed-Ex doesn't lose them, they will be at Road America for our first test in the Mid-West.

CCS pays all of it's staff members, corners included, to work our events. CRA is/was, to the best of my knowledge, an all volunteer staff. That alone would pay for their scoring system in one season. As far as I can tell, they do a very good job at their events. Being a "big" company, no one wants to work for CCE/CCS for free, so it makes our events more expensive to run. (So does the $6,000 in cash purse at every event.) The GT races pay the same for track time as the sprints do, the extra cost is solely for the purse. CRA also doesn't have to pay nearly $3000 per event in medical insurance either. As a club, the members aren't quite as quick to sue as they are a large corporation. Just a fact we have to live with.

As for cutting races, we try to schedule the maximum amount of laps possible in the time we have to run. (More and more we are forced to end races by 5PM at the latest due to noise regulations and the encroachment of houses on existing tracks.)If we can avoid all but the normal delays, every race runs it's distance as posted, it is only when multiple red-flags push us below the three race an hour projection that we are forced to shorten events. (When things go right, we run 4 races an hour, we plan on 3, but when it falls to two we must act.) We could just post all as 6 lap races and when things go good just go home at 3PM, or we can try to get you all the track time possible by scheduling up to our cut-off time. I have always felt you would rather get as much track time as possible.

The reason we have 17 or so races on Sunday is the number of classes. No survey we have ever done has shown that riders are willing to give up classes to run longer races. It is what we refer to as the not-in-my-back-yard syndrome. Riders would like to see fewer classes, but don't want to lose the classes they run. In 1990, we had 24 classes, now we have 41 classes. It is these large number of classes that keep entry fees down. To run just the 28 "main-stream" (read open to 90% of our riders) fees would easily be $100 for the first class, $75 for the second and $50 for each additional, and that is just to break even at a normal event such as Blackhawk. Is this the direction you want to go?

I have wasted enough of your time, I hope that I have made a few points clearer.  

I also thank you all for your patience and support.

[bmfgsxr]

Kevin,

    What about running the classes during the week rather than in between races? I do want new riders to get into our sport, but maybe classes can not be squeezed in since there are always going to be red flags, etc... that will delay a race or two. If the classes were to be run on alternate weekends, or during the week then we could have the sprint races be 8 laps rather than 7. How about starting practice at 8am, or as early as the local noise ordinance will allow? I would like to see a lot of you guys post up some positive ideas on how to improve the situation. As far as transponders, well... Im just happy they are going to be at all CCS events.  What about giving racers credit towards another race if their race is cut short. For instance, if an endurance race is cut short in order to make time up through the day then what ever the average # of laps are turned during a normal gt will be compared with actual laps run, and each rider will have a credit. Say a rider earns 5 laps credit, then the rider could either turn that in for a % towards another race, or save up til they have enough for an entire race. I know it might take some additional work to organize and track who has what credit, but I know for damn sure it would make a large group of happier racers.

[MightyDuc Racing]

Just remember how expensive that first race weekend is.  I couldn't have afforded to pay for the school and all the stuff I needed to get out there, AND take off work to do it on a weekday.  The alternate weekend might work, but what if the new riders are coming from 6-8 hours away?  It's a catch-22 unfortunately..imho.

[bmfgsxr]

it is tougher to get more people involved if they have to take time off of work for sure. but to squeeze schools in between races  makes the guys who have paid their dues suffer. loudon is my home track, and there are usually over 1000 guys racing a weekend, and i have never seen a race cut short due to anything but a red flag. they run the penguin school on fridays with just a rookie race on saturday at 12pm, then your in the mix with the other ametures. so if it works up there there is no reason why it cant work else where. besides, the school was held on friday with the rookie race on friday as well. so i dont know what is up with the classes between races anyway.

[MightyDuc Racing]

Down here we don't race on Saturday....practice all day.  The only school on a race weekend that is actually held on a weekday is the Penguin School in December at Homestead, as far as I know.  The schools on a normal race weekend have a little classroom time Saturday morning, 1 practice with a follow-the-leader format before lunch, one after lunch with a little more freedom, and then they turn ya loose.  Not the safest thing, but I guess it works.  However, I might be willing to give up a little more of my track time so the newbies get a little more time before they are sent into the general population for my own safety.  At Moroso, there was an orange shirt in my first practice session after lunch (his first real session) that swerved across the track twice, almost took out 4 or 5 of us, and then put his hand up and cut back to the inside and pulled off for no particular reason.  I think he just panicked when he must have looked back and saw a big group of us coming.  Whatever his reason was, it almost got really ugly.  Then he went down on his own about three turns later, and crashed in the same corner Sunday morning while I was sitting there blown up.  I feel that if he had gotten a little more track time and maybe a mock race before he was sent out with us he would have been more comfortable and things would have been safer for all.  Just my .02 based on one individual example.

[bmfgsxr]

up here there is practice in the mornings and races all day. if guys need more track time then they should be hitting track days before going right into racing. that is the dangers of the ameture class. and no matter what you do there will be situations like that with newbies all the time. and rather than make dangerous situations, and take up racers time and money maybe they should be required to have a little more than just a school. but even still, being in a race situation is a unique one, and only experience can get someone used to it. that is a big reason why i couldnt wait to get out of the ameture class, but it is a part of the deal.  and going back and forth isnt going to create a solution about our time being cut into when we paid and traveled a long distance for such time.  so lets get some constructive ideas.

[sdiver68]

I think the transponders should be ONLY used for the scooter races.

No, that's what the trackside sun dials are for  ;D

[Super Dave]

Dave, who said we weren't having transponders at Road America? You should ask me when you have a question like that.

Is that me?  I believe Bill said that at Blackhawk.  I hope he would be in the know.  

So, you think we'll have them there?

No survey we have ever done has shown that riders are willing to give up classes to run longer races. It is what we refer to as the not-in-my-back-yard syndrome. Riders would like to see fewer classes, but don't want to lose the classes they run. In 1990, we had 24 classes, now we have 41 classes. It is these large number of classes that keep entry fees down. To run just the 28 "main-stream" (read open to 90% of our riders) fees would easily be $100 for the first class, $75 for the second and $50 for each additional, and that is just to break even at a normal event such as Blackhawk. Is this the direction you want to go?

Personally, I like that idea.  There is quite a bit of redundency.  A few more laps would be nice.

We have lost practice in the AM though.  How did we loose that?  

Thanks for dropping a note, Kevin.  I though it was your time that was pretty valuable, so, thanks!