Outside observer view of CCS

Started by Solo, May 02, 2010, 02:54:18 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Solo

Quick report since I only did the one (Saturday) race day:

After almost a three year hiatus and the first time racing in the U.S. I could not have asked for better weather.  Cool track layout and decent run-off as well!

Appreciate the assistance of the folks I met and the CCS crew that tolerated my questions.  Definitely enjoyed the day. 
As for my background I raced at the club level in Japan at tracks like Tsukuba, Motegi, Sugo, Suzuka etc for a few years, so doing a CCS event I sometimes felt more like a curious observer than an actual participant.  Some background and takeaways below:


Background: I was gridded 14th and 17th for GTO and F40 AM respectively and finished 6th and 5th.  Both races consisted of weaving through traffic and that's about it. Finished the day with a best lap of 134.5

I was leery about the 1st corner considering stories I heard so in the GTO race decided discretion was the better part of valor and slightly limited forward progress at the start to see what would happen.  Sure enough a "torpedo" with no guidance came right by me and crashed through the crowd.  Stupid but funny and sad what folks told me would happen actually happened.  Dumb actions in turn one seems almost universally accepted here.  I'll post the video later.

I didn't hold to the same start limitation in the F40 class.  I figured the old guys that have to work on Monday would be smooth and wasn't disappointed!  8)

As for how the organization ran, from my perspective it was ok.  I can't compare it to Japan because CCS is so much more flexible in rules and classes for their customers I have to assume that's a major cause of some delays in the morning. 
(In Japan there are 6 classes and you sign up three weeks before or don't play.  Tough rule but smooth processing of paperwork and tech)

As for officiating, only thing I saw was a rider that couldn't find his spot on the grid so he parked in front of me.  The grid official standing 40' away looked on.  Start went on anyway.  Not a big deal but interesting nonetheless.  I'll post that as well.

My only real issue is the no qualifying / grid determined by registration policy.

I asked a CCS official (I do have her name for reference if asked) about the policy to gain an understanding of the CCS organizational mindset and to sum it up I was politely told:
1: "That's the way its always been"
2: "Practice is for warm-up"
3: "Its only club racing"

Hmmmm....... I submit:

1. With time keeping and scoring technology it doesn't have to be this way any longer. Why not change the morning practice to qualifying?  Then riders of similar time can get to business side-by-side from the start of the race. Safer for the riders and more fun for the spectators.
2. Practice is not warm-up.  Practice is qualifying.  What else are we doing out there?  Maybe testing is being confused with practice? 
3. As for the "only club racing" mindset, is club racing and professionalism counter to one another?

Anyway- felt great to be back on the track and very impressed with the quality of riding, the effort on the part of CCS, the friendliness of the paddock and the opportunity to flog a race bike around a circuit.  However, to be honest, I don't know if I can adjust to the different approach here. Still contemplating that issue.

Feedback appreciated. 

Craig
CCS AM #532

MELK-MAN

There simply is not time to take practice times and put them on a grid. The grid is mostly made up with pre-entries before the weekend gets going. Then, the post entries are just added in order they come in.
Gridding by time would mean club racers spending MORE money and risking more to get in that "good lap" to grid toward the front. (need a good set of tires, race fuel perhaps, etc. to do your "qualifying lap"). For what.. if you want that kind of thing, do the wera National series, or get an AMA licence. For me anyway, I wan't those few morning warm up laps to shake down the bike and try a few suspension tweeks, as well as get the "rust" off of my riding..
Wera grids by points i think.. so.. you would have actually been gridded further back with them if you had no points in the class you chose to run. It is not a perfect system, but there is more to setting a grid by times than you might think.

there are some things that didn't go as planned, ok, as a whole things usually go pretty smooth. I will say the starting grid procedures have been a bit of a mess lately. Riders that dont' know thier grid postion should be YANKED off the grid NOW.. especially with the summer time upon us, engine temps rise rapidly and we don't need some idiot (1st term that comes to mind) messing things up for everyone else. This is something i intend to bring up myself..

Bonehead riders? you will have them from time to time.. They USUALLY weed themselves out of racing pretty quick, either running out of money fixing thier shit all the time or get hurt.
2012 FL region & 2014 South East overall champion
Pro Flow Tech Performance Fuel Injector Service
MICHELIN, EBC, Silkolene, JenningsGP, Engine Ice

jon211

Practice times are recorded and posted so whats the issue with posting griding position at the same time?  What more than that actually goes into it?  I know we use that limited track time to set up suspension and other testing but at least this would keep a grid that varies 5 sec a lap in order.
AM #89

Solo

QuoteThere simply is not time to take practice times and put them on a grid.

QuotePractice times are recorded and posted so whats the issue with posting griding position at the same time?

It seems there is time for those that are pre-registered.  Maybe assigning grid by time for pre-registered riders is the way to go.
Post-register riders are then behind the pre-register grid.
The ups: More motivation to pre-register
The downs: The fast post-register guys are in the back and there is still a mis-match (albeit less) in the overall grid. 

I asked if Club racing is counter to professionalism.  You wrote:

QuoteGridding by time would mean club racers spending MORE money and risking more to get in that "good lap" to grid toward the front. (need a good set of tires, race fuel perhaps, etc. to do your "qualifying lap").

and

QuoteFor me anyway, I wan't those few morning warm up laps to shake down the bike and try a few suspension tweeks, as well as get the "rust" off of my riding..

No slight intended but I think you've answered my question.  Training (physically and mentally) before race day and preparing your bike to perform at the highest level you can reasonably afford and allowed by the rules is from your perspective too much to ask for club racing.
I can understand that.  Just can't quite accept it.

You asked:

QuoteFor what..

To know you did your best. 
And to know you were not artificially limited by the day you sent your fax. 

Quoteif you want that kind of thing, do the wera National series, or get an AMA licence.

Aw yes, this implies if I had the talent and time I could pursue this the right way.  Since I have neither, those options are out and I should accept things the way they are :biggrin:

Hmmm.  Is there no middle road?  Only the choice of do a national series or accept the current standard?   

It would be interesting to pick a couple of series in 2011 as a test case and try it.

Concur with the other comments.


CCS AM #532

Woofentino Pugrossi

Quote from: jon211 on May 02, 2010, 06:07:24 PM
Practice times are recorded and posted so whats the issue with posting griding position at the same time?  What more than that actually goes into it?  I know we use that limited track time to set up suspension and other testing but at least this would keep a grid that varies 5 sec a lap in order.


What if the rider has multiple bikes that fall in the same practice groups? (ie a thunderbike and a 125gp. Both run the same practice group). How would staff know which bike they used?


We get this topic EVERY YEAR.

Dunno about other tracks but going by Blackhawk, we dont have time to do qualifying period. We can only run between 8am and MUST be done by 6PM. 11 races on Sat (4 endurance and the racing school also runs) and usually 15 on sunday. Now include things like red flags, having to repair the air fences after a bike slams into them, trying to get a racebike that wont roll into the trailer, track cleanup from bikes dropping fluids and so many other things which will cut into the schedule. Any race that cannot be completed by 6PM probably would be rescheduled for another weekend. Then that weekend will be all screwed up also with a tighter schedule.

As for the guy not knowing his grid position, he should had been told to pull it off to the side. I have yet to know any racer who doesnt have duct tape in his/her toolbox that they can use as a "post it note" on the gas tank/triples.

Rob
CCS MW#14 EX, ASRA #141
CCSForums Cornerworking and Classifieds Mod

skiandclimb

FWIW, Most of the "bad riders" who get their paperwork in early, do not bolster their chances, really, by gridding front row. The faster, late registrants simply have better starts, and find their way to the front (typically) by means of sheer talent...and usually prior to T1.

Not to hack on you for coming up racing stellar tracks in Japan or anything, but the answer of "it is what it is" (paraphrasing, of course) is just that. CCS has always gridded by entry. I'm sure if I, or any other CCS racer, were to go to Japan and race club circuits, we would likely have similar responses, quesitons, wonderment etc etc.

Having worked throughout the years with a couple Asian folks, I understand that their culture is COMPLETELY different in almost every respect. I get things like "drive" "determination" "performing at your highest level" etc.  And I understand that many (most) Asians cultures stress the "nothing but the absolute best" mentality.  I completely, and whole-heartedly respect this attitude, but I think when one has this mindset, they are missing out on one very key aspect.......FUN.

CCS racing is a blast.  The races are a blast, the officials are usually fun and easy going. The racers are caring and giving to a fault. We drink beer after practice.  We cuss.  We BS one another on a regular basis.  Perhaps there is a lack of asian styled proffesionalism, but it's fun.  And not to sound cliche, but it is what we have done since CCS' inception.

I think you should look into running a few of CCS' sister outfit's races- the ASRA series.  Qualifying laps and all.  Plus, you still get all of the home-style bullshit and bench racing in the paddock!  I think ASRA would probably make you feel more at home in terms of timed gridding and the like.

I hope you don't think I am pooping on your parade here, bro! If I were to switch to a different organization, I would probably look cock-eyed at their procedures as well.

Anywho, FWIW, welcome to CCS racing.  We are glad to have you, and hope you stick around!  Also, CCS is open to any and ALL rules changes at the end of each season.  You might not like their response, but they WILL discusss the issue.

HTH,

Ski

#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

Solo

#6
Ski,
I think you are correct.  17 years in Japan may have had an affect on me! :err:

QuoteI hope you don't think I am pooping on your parade here, bro!

Not at all.  Another perspective is a great thing.  Thanks!

QuoteWhat if the rider has multiple bikes that fall in the same practice groups? (ie a thunderbike and a 125gp. Both run the same practice group). How would staff know which bike they used?

Hmmmmm....................
CCS AM #532

DougG60

#7
Quote from: skiandclimb on May 02, 2010, 08:15:42 PM
FWIW, Most of the "bad riders" who get their paperwork in early, do not bolster their chances, really, by gridding front row. The faster, late registrants simply have better starts, and find their way to the front (typically) by means of sheer talent...and usually prior to T1.

i can agree with you there but this weekend at njmp was not the case. there were several races with 50-60 riders with 2 waves. so it turned into 7 laps of mayham with those faster guys 20 rows back doing bansi maneuvers to get maybe to 10th place.
EX101 Ducati 848

RCR_531

Hey Craig
Did you ride Don's F4? Rich seem to have this problem after coming back from Japan too. The  tracks that we think are great here in the States are nothing compared to what you guys gotto race on over there. Hope to hit a SRTT event and maybe meet some more of you guys soon now that Don is back.
Rodney LeQuia

Biggs Motorsports  RCR Kawasaki  SBS Vortex  Conti
Lithum Motorsports

Solo

Quoteso it turned into 7 laps of mayham with those faster guys 20 rows back doing bansi maneuvers to get maybe to 10th place.

I hope I'm not in the video but I'll admit going from 17th to 5th in 7 laps compelled me to lose some politeness.
The harder part was looking at laptimes afterwards and seeing my time was all but equal to the guy that won.  He's the guy I wanted to race.

Maybe there is no way to remove the affect of random grid positioning on racing results.  Still doesn't mean its very pallatable.

QuoteThe  tracks that we think are great here in the States are nothing compared to what you guys gotto race on over there.

Actually, I have to admit I thought that when my first track visit was Summit Point.  I could not believe how fast these guys went with the surface they are given.  After talking with a couple of guys they convinced me the surface had grip.  Once I went for it I really liked the place.  The track has a very fun flow to it. I like the track.

The whole airfence requirement though is a shock.  Terrible that its so necessary but I'm thankful its there!

Oh, and then I went to VIR and NJMP and lo and behold, great tracks!  NJMP is as good as Sugo.  VIR has a better flow than Motegi and Summit is at least as safe as Ebisu. (Nothing beats Suzuka but I have more U.S. tracks to check)

And there are other things America has over Japan- The friendliness of the riders, the access to the paddock before race day, the larger number of quality riders and I also noticed the women are more endowed. But this is a family-friendly website so don't want to offend :biggrin:
CCS AM #532

DougG60

Quote from: Solo on May 02, 2010, 10:39:04 PM
I hope I'm not in the video but I'll admit going from 17th to 5th in 7 laps compelled me to lose some politeness.
The harder part was looking at laptimes afterwards and seeing my time was all but equal to the guy that won.  He's the guy I wanted to race.
well in f40 that would be me. was 2nd into t1 and in lead and checking out after the chicane. if you are going to summit try to find me 101 duc 848. no video from that one i ran hw ss and the red flagged un ss. both were mayham
EX101 Ducati 848

Carnag3

this weekend at NJMP a few of us got screwed.
Carnage
CCS EX #901
www.carnag3.com

drew231506

#12
I replied to this on the other forum...my opinion:

I felt the same way last year. It’d prolly make for better racing if they did qualifying. But on the other hand its nice go out and get used to the bike a little in the practices before pushing. Also most of the people racing that are serious about it are pre-registered anyway.   I was new to racing last year and was gridded in the back, still finished top 6 in most races, maybe i could have hung with the leaders if i was up front...which is why i signed up early this year.  Kind of a right of passage.  Plus I was able to improve my passing skills.

You don’t have to register really early, if you know a month before hand that you wana race, and sign up, youll prolly be in the first 3 rows at most events. Also if you get a really good start you can blow right by 4 rows of traffic into T1 anyway.

As for the comment "It's only club racing". I think more people should think like this. Especially Amateur racers. Some need to be reminded that their mom can go out and race in the Novice class, call herself "Mom's Racing Team", and list a bunch of bs "sponsors". JMO
CCS Expert# 13

Johnny B

Quote from: Solo on May 02, 2010, 10:39:04 PM
I hope I'm not in the video but I'll admit going from 17th to 5th in 7 laps compelled me to lose some politeness.
Now THAT was elegantly stated!  8)
Johnny B. (the other one) ®
Butler's Rest Home - "No Vacancy"
http://resthome.50megs.com


Solo

QuoteWhat if the rider has multiple bikes that fall in the same practice groups? (ie a thunderbike and a 125gp. Both run the same practice group). How would staff know which bike they used?

I felt I owed you an answer on this and after reviewing 10 random expert races matched to practice classes, I found the average race lap time for a combined practice class was within 1-2 seconds of each other.

This means whomever set the practice classes put some statistical thinking to it.  It also means CCS would not need to care about which bike the rider was on so long as the practice classes remained the same.

Now I'm sure there are "bookend" classes that have to be considered but I'll let the group challenge my "back of the napkin" reasoning before going there.

So, we've shown the practice classes permit time to qualify.  We know with timing and scorekeeping technology a software program can stack riders on the grid in almost real time.   We know qualifying improves the breed and makes for safer racing.  What am I missing? 
CCS AM #532

OreoGaborio

I prefer they grid by points rather than by practice times, like they do in LRRS.

Sometimes mechanical difficulties prevent fast practice times, or even your ability to make practice at all.  I prefer my mornings being a litle more laid back and use practice for getting the cobwebs out & not trying to get that best lap in.
-Pete
LRRS/CCS#187 ECK-Racing
Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Phoenix Graphics | Woodcraft | Moon Performance | RJ's Motorsport | Motorcycles of Manchester | MTag-Pirelli | Tony's Track Days

antirich

Hey Solo.

I was the guy talking to you at registration. Cool stories about racing in Japan, especially how they get up at 6am to 'claim' their pit spot.

Yea, I agree with some in that this is only club racing, but in terms of safety, I did some issues with the current format. My first race was last year, registered late and gridded pretty much on the last few row. Had a blast.

This year and register about a week before the early deadline. Just wanted to save a few bucks and not be in the back row. Well, I end up on row two of the Middleweight and Heavyweight races. Sounds cool, but within a few seconds of the flag dropping, I realize that this was a really bad idea. I soon realize that I have no business  challenging the turn one chaos. I held my own, but man, that was a wake up call.

Considering that I am a true amateur at this, I don't think I'll be doing the early registration any more. Maybe next year if i stick with it, but right now, it's not worth the risk on a 60+ bike grid.

But, if gridding was placed by an average (or best) practice time, I would have gridded mid way in the back. Far safer than where I was.

And yes, it doesn't take much for software to assign a grid based on time (or points) parameters. If anything, if may even speed some things up.

And regarding registration, I've always found it to be quite antiquated in today's technology world. Not just racing, but track days as well. How about just registering online, then arriving in the pit and swipe your card to alert the system that you showed up? Except for any changes, what else is needed? No real reason to touch a pen these days.

skiandclimb

Quote from: antirich on May 06, 2010, 02:10:09 PM

And regarding registration, I've always found it to be quite antiquated in today's technology world.

+1, but you are preaching to the choir on this one!  Now, where did that avatar for whipping a dead horse go???? :thumb:
#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

tstruyk

anit-

why not just pre-reg and request to be gridded at the back? 
CCS GP/ASRA  #85
2010 Sponsors: Lithium Motorsports, Probst Brothers Racing, Suspension Solutions, Pirelli, SBS, Vortex

"It is incredible what a rider filled with irrational desire can accomplish"

skiandclimb

Quote from: tstruyk on May 06, 2010, 03:25:25 PM
anit-

why not just pre-reg and request to be gridded at the back? 

Stop making sense.  It hurts my head!
#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

Solo

Quotewhy not just pre-reg and request to be gridded at the back?
I read in the rulebook you can notify the grid marshal prior to the sighting lap you will grid in the back. (or words to that affect)

I seriously considered it at the start of my first race (GTO).
Never considered it for F40.  I figured my fellow old farts have long since given up MotoGP aspirations.  You didn't let me down! :biggrin:

So my plan from now is to do Summit and if I make the decision to stay, I'll put together a rules change proposal to incorporate qualifying or grid by points.  Figure if I'm staying I've got to be part of the solution.

QuoteI was the guy talking to you at registration. Cool stories about racing in Japan, especially how they get up at 6am to 'claim' their pit spot.

This reminds me I should point out the cool things about CCS:  Not only the friendliest bunch but I can't get over how many of you speak english! :thumb:
CCS AM #532

skiandclimb

#730 CCS MW/GP
Pursuit Racing, The Backstopper's Org.
www.cyclehouseperformance.com - St. Louis, MO.
King Edward's Chicken and Fish- St. Louis, MO.
www.mcraracing.com

antirich

Um, I did just that on my third race. Talked to Kevin (?), and he stated that not only did I need to be on the last row, but on the row BEHIND the last guy. For HHW SS, that was almost under the bridge  :lmao: Yea, a bit safer, but holy crap did I have to deal with some slow traffic for the first few laps.

So overall, my only option when pre-registering is to be part of the turn one mess, or get put to the back of the class.

I guess I'll just post register and pay the extra $20 next time. Or get a Thunderbike.

Solo

Quotethe turn one mess

When I boil it all down, this really is the one thing that makes CCS less than a 1st class organization.
Tracks are good, staff is good.  All the right pieces are in place. 

Just need to organize the grid for a professional start. 
CCS AM #532

Johnny B

#24
Quote from: antirich on May 07, 2010, 04:12:43 PM
he stated that not only did I need to be on the last row, but on the row BEHIND the last guy.
So at Loudon, you'd be gridded next to Dave Roper!   8)
Johnny B. (the other one) ®
Butler's Rest Home - "No Vacancy"
http://resthome.50megs.com


Speedballer347

#25
Quote from: Solo on May 07, 2010, 11:27:58 PM
Just need to organize the grid for a professional start. 

I am going to agree with Greg on this, everything he says makes the most sense to me....

Gridding by time would mean club racers spending MORE money and risking more to get in that "good lap" to grid toward the front. (need a good set of tires, race fuel perhaps, etc. to do your "qualifying lap"). .....For me anyway, I wan't those few morning warm up laps to shake down the bike and try a few suspension tweeks, as well as get the "rust" off of my riding..
Wera grids by points i think.. so.. you would have actually been gridded further back with them if you had no points in the class you chose to run.



CCS #347 expert, MW/GP, GSXR1000
JoJo Bits, HighSpeedAssault.com, WickedStickers.com, GNO Kneesliders, WFO-Motorsports IL, ImageX Photography, Royalty Racing

gonecrazy

last year at the michelin races i enjoyed qualifying for my grid spot..hell i fely like i accomplished something just buy how good i did qualify.

wadehead

#152 EX Mid Atlantic Region
Integrated Sports Medicine and Physical Therapy

MELK-MAN

#28
Quote from: Solo on May 07, 2010, 11:27:58 PM
Just need to organize the grid for a professional start. 

You pretty much answer your own question here..this is NOT professional racing. If ya want that, go do the "big gun" class with AMA or step up to Sportbike AMA class. A point i would like to make about the "Gridding by time thing" is , it would add an element to the "club" race weekend MOST of the "weekend Warrior" racers simply would not be accustomed to, they would get excited and often crash trying for that 1 fast lap. MOst of us already have enough to worry about. Getting there, the bad night sleep ya got an a cheap motel, finding stuff wrong with the bike cause you had been working overtime every day since the LAST race and it hadn't even had  the oil changed.
Having to the be worried about your practice lap times to try and push that extra bit to get on the next row of the starting grid will have you on your head because NO WAY will many have money for a new set of tires.. Riders would be looking at the lap timer on the bars of the bike, making it MORE DANGEROUS for other riders that MAY NOT GIVE A CRAP about where on the grid they are..

by mid season you would have fewer and fewer as are already on the grids. I could be a bit off base, some of the riding I see in PRACTICE is enough to have me rethinking my initial sentence. When all the riders are of a caliber to be within 108% of the fast guy, THEN qualifying becomes a better way round. (in my humble opinion of course..)
2012 FL region & 2014 South East overall champion
Pro Flow Tech Performance Fuel Injector Service
MICHELIN, EBC, Silkolene, JenningsGP, Engine Ice

antirich

Do you really think guys are going to push their practice sessions to the point of crashing? I mean, if girdding in the front was so important, why are most of the faster guys not pre-registering? My take is that grid position isn't all that important if your a really fast guy.

From the few races that I started at the front, the guys that stormed turn one where at least a few rows back, and VERY fast.

If you have to grid by time of registration, I just wish they'd give us am option of gridding further back when pre-registering, without having to resort to the very last row. i like saving a few bucks and not having to deal with a longer line the morning of (20 people long at 7am!!). Saving time and money is great, but starting from the very last row is not.

Again, just my take on this.

Speedballer347

#30
I only see a few ways to do the grids and they have all been mentioned; first-come-first-served...points...qualifying.

First-come, seems the most logical to me.  If you want to be upfront, pay early.  If you want to be mid, pay a day or two before.  In the back, just go to the back of the grid.

Points system can be skewed.  There are plenty of super fast guys that don't follow the whole race schedule.  They would be penalized.  What about slower guys that do have the resources to attend every weekend....they will find themselves further forward than maybe they would want.  But, the fast guys who follow the series closely will be in the front where they belong.

Qualifying instead of practice, to me would be the worst.  Greg is right, the guys with the finacial resources would have fresh tires and VP just for this, while the shoestring budgeters would be SOL.
Also, I personally like practice to give me a chance to wake up, get reaquainted with the track/speed, and make adjustments.  I can't imagine showing up at the track and being expected to run my normal pace immediately.

If more time was available, maybe qualifiying after practice would be a good option.  But I don't know if that time would be availabe. I dunno

IMHO, CCS is doing a good job.
CCS #347 expert, MW/GP, GSXR1000
JoJo Bits, HighSpeedAssault.com, WickedStickers.com, GNO Kneesliders, WFO-Motorsports IL, ImageX Photography, Royalty Racing

MELK-MAN

yup. Nothing is perfect, and any way it would be done someone would find fault with it.
2012 FL region & 2014 South East overall champion
Pro Flow Tech Performance Fuel Injector Service
MICHELIN, EBC, Silkolene, JenningsGP, Engine Ice

roadracer162

Gotta agree with the last couple posts. All have good points but someone will always be left out. The Japanese does it one way and it works for them.

Being the fastest guy out there doesn't always make the winner. In one of the rare cases I was the fastest I didn't win the race. It is more prevalent that my competition is faster than me but yet I have won some races. It has been said it isn't as safe having the fast guy in the back and although many times true, shouldn't he have the best skill in getting past a slower rider. Not all fast riders get a good start no matter where they start. Then there is the slower rider than can have an excellent start. The result can be the same delema that we have now.

Qualifying will add more time to get to the races. I believe that the formula CCS uses gets more riders out there may not have had the chance to race. Without practice like how CCS Florida does it would probably mean less racers as the choice would be track days.
Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

Speedballer347

Quote from: majicMARKer on May 09, 2010, 01:09:43 PM
It has been said it isn't as safe having the fast guy in the back and although many times true, shouldn't he have the best skill in getting past a slower rider. Not all fast riders get a good start no matter where they start. Then there is the slower rider than can have an excellent start. The result can be the same delema that we have now.

Good point!
CCS #347 expert, MW/GP, GSXR1000
JoJo Bits, HighSpeedAssault.com, WickedStickers.com, GNO Kneesliders, WFO-Motorsports IL, ImageX Photography, Royalty Racing

Solo

Good reading.

Wish I could do a "mind-meld" with some of you and let you see the confidence that comes from being surrounded by experienced riders you can trust in an environment that expects professional behavior even if the speeds are not.

I'm convinced the financial benefit that comes with the current rules prevent change. 

Like I mentioned before, I'll make my decision after Summit.  In the meantime, I'm happy I'm back racing. 
Still have a grin on my face from NJMP.  Even started the training routine again.   Will see where it goes from here  8)
CCS AM #532

Speedballer347

Quote from: Solo on May 10, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
Wish I could do a "mind-meld" with some of you and let you see the confidence that comes from being surrounded by experienced riders you can trust in an environment that expects professional behavior

IMHO the further up front you get, the safer & more predictable company you will keep.
CCS #347 expert, MW/GP, GSXR1000
JoJo Bits, HighSpeedAssault.com, WickedStickers.com, GNO Kneesliders, WFO-Motorsports IL, ImageX Photography, Royalty Racing

Gino230

Making practice a qualifying session would not be a good idea. There are guys out there in practice (like me) who haven't been to the track in 2 months and are shaking down suspension changes, new tires, etc. Meanwhile, a guy like Melka is trying to put a hot lap in. Not a good combo.

Not to mention the financial incentive for CCS. Pre entries are money in the bank, and give the organizer a good idea of how many will show up to race on the weekend. If we were gridded by times, many would blow off pre entry and it would be alot harder for the organizer to plan the race weekend.

Glad to hear you are enjoying racing with us, welcome to the club!
CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

hdpromos

Qualifying 3 or 4 classes like at an AMA National is no problem. However, try doing the same for 39 classes on a CCS weekend, that is a problem!

HD

roadracer162

Quote from: Solo on May 10, 2010, 09:46:49 PM

Wish I could do a "mind-meld" with some of you and let you see the confidence that comes from being surrounded by experienced riders you can trust in an environment that expects professional behavior even if the speeds are not.

That's why I went to the expert class instead of lingering in the Amateur field forever.

Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

Speedballer347

Quote from: majicMARKer on May 19, 2010, 10:25:29 PM
That's why I went to the expert class instead of lingering in the Amateur field forever.

I agree completely.  Running with the experts, as a group they are so much more predictable.
CCS #347 expert, MW/GP, GSXR1000
JoJo Bits, HighSpeedAssault.com, WickedStickers.com, GNO Kneesliders, WFO-Motorsports IL, ImageX Photography, Royalty Racing