Grattan / Gingermann?

[Burt Munro]

Tommy Mason tried to burn up my bike at Autobahn once..... true story!

He kind of made up for it the next time there though......  grabbed Rob Oliva's fire extinguisher and helped put out the fire of a kids bike as he came off the track in full flame!

Needless to say I'm not a fan of going back to Autobahn - I don't like fire!

[SV88]

I'm totally fed up with BHF (no elevation changes) and it's really a locals expert track.  Will be concentrating on podiuming in a real endurance series (CMRA in Texas 4-8 hr races) not like the poor excuses for endo like the ASRA TC (a long GT) or even most of the AMA GT races.  BHF is real convenient, the track mangement is great and they've really improved the facilities, however it's probably my least favorite track compared to Grattan, Ginger, Auto S (we won't mention north) and RA.

An easy solution to getting all  the cheeseheads to Mi. is to set up a CCS rate for the Milwaukee - Muskegon ferry; it could be an excellent excuse for a cruise party Friday or Thur. afternoons!!.  I'd even drive up from Gurnee instead of dealing with the south side and horrible north indiana.

[Super Dave]

and it's really a locals expert track.

Never was a more true statement made. 

But it applies to most tracks until someone really fast from out of town shows up.  Who are the past Blackhawk lap record holders?  Jensen (ND), Junge (WI, but seldom ever races at Blackhawk), Denning (KS), and Johnson (MN). 

[Super Dave]

I was at the Wera national Gratten event this year and there were a decent amount of attendees, Why will people travel there for Wera but not for CCS?

Because WERA has more riders from south and east of Grattan that don't have to drive through Chicago.  And their 500 mile trip from Tennessee or Pennsylvania might take the same time as my 340 mile trip from Wisconsin...or less. 

[HAWK]

What is a locals expert track?

[NOBODY]

Tommy Mason tried to burn up my bike at Autobahn once..... true story!

Its not like you were ever gonna use it

[George_Linhart]

What is a locals expert track?

Hawk - I'll answer the question because it is something that Steve and I have discussed frequently.

It is a track where a certain sub-set of racers ride so often they can do very fast lap times.  However, take the same riders to a different track and they are well off the pace.  It is particularly true of tracks which are not very technical and generally it happens that the same tracks have identifiable surface issues where the fast line is different than the ideal corner so you can "learn" to get around the track by sheer # of laps.  Blackhawk Farms, Summit Point, Texas World Speedway are three tracks that instantly spring to my mind as classic "local expert" tracks.

It doesn't tend to hapen at more technical tracks - think Barber, VIR, Mid-Ohio - because to be fast at these tracks you need to do much more than memorize the fast lines.  It also doesn't happen a tracks that are not as frequently open to bikes or more out of the way (Road America, Daytona) because there is little opportunity to do the sheer # of laps needed to wrote memorize the track vs. displaying outright riding skill.

Nothing against guys who are fast at BHF, but, the MW series has so many races at this one track that it does shape the regional championship.

George

[Super Dave]

Nothing against guys who are fast at BHF, but, the MW series has so many races at this one track that it does shape the regional championship.

George

Don't forget how much money having those multiple events at those locations make too.  It allows some opportunities to loose money at other tracks, even the "big, cool one's" that cost so much. 

[Boober]

Hawk - I'll answer the question because it is something that Steve and I have discussed frequently.

It is a track where a certain sub-set of racers ride so often they can do very fast lap times.  However, take the same riders to a different track and they are well off the pace.  It is particularly true of tracks which are not very technical and generally it happens that the same tracks have identifiable surface issues where the fast line is different than the ideal corner so you can "learn" to get around the track by sheer # of laps.  Blackhawk Farms, Summit Point, Texas World Speedway are three tracks that instantly spring to my mind as classic "local expert" tracks.

It doesn't tend to hapen at more technical tracks - think Barber, VIR, Mid-Ohio - because to be fast at these tracks you need to do much more than memorize the fast lines.  It also doesn't happen a tracks that are not as frequently open to bikes or more out of the way (Road America, Daytona) because there is little opportunity to do the sheer # of laps needed to wrote memorize the track vs. displaying outright riding skill.

Nothing against guys who are fast at BHF, but, the MW series has so many races at this one track that it does shape the regional championship.

George

Just for grins I just checked the Middleweight expert results for the CCS Midwest region (blackhawks main region)  It would appear that the front riders at Blackhawk were in the front everywhere all year.  So much for local experts at blackhawk!  Maybe if you are fast at Blackhawk you are fast everywhere!

[Boober]

Really the fast local expert thing is OFF topic.  Bottom line is no matter who likes what track CCS is only going to go to tracks where the management is bike friendly and there is a chance of PROFIT. Autobahn- not friendly to bikes ....Grattan- rumored to be Not CCS friendly AND low chance of profit. Gingerman low chance of profit Blackhawk- VERY bike friendly and profitable.  I want to say that I like Grattan and Gingerman better than BHF personally, but I do not see those tracks on the schedule any time soon.   

[George_Linhart]

Just for grins I just checked the Middleweight expert results for the CCS Midwest region (blackhawks main region)  It would appear that the front riders at Blackhawk were in the front everywhere all year.  So much for local experts at blackhawk!  Maybe if you are fast at Blackhawk you are fast everywhere!

Go deeper into the results.  Look beyond the top couple of guys in one class in one year (a year with light turn-out); it takes more than a casual glance to figure out who almost always ONLY show up at BHF but when they race elsewhere they are 2-3 seconds off the respective pace that they run at this track.  I'm not saying that the fast guys don't win at BHF, I am just saying that it is a track where some people spend SO MUCH time that they are much faster there than at any other track.

I completely get the economics of it.  Here is the deal.  You guys who like it can race BHF untill your hands blead - I will just do the Road America, HPT and Mid-Ohio weekends with an occasional race at BHF on days that suit me.  I won't worry about where I finish in the pack at BHF or in the regional standings - its all just for fun anyways!

George

[truckstop]

I'd love to see ACC on the schedule. They do still have races there - SCCA World Challenge ran there last summer - full course. We've done a lot of track days there the past couple of years and people there have been friendly enough, and the days have usually sold out. Biggest downside is the surface on south degrading and getting bumpy, and the cost. It's an expensive track to rent.

I wonder if there were a TD/practice/licensing clinic the day before or something, and if it were well promoted, how many of the TD regulars from Chicago would try racing? (meaning: fill the grids) Unfortunately there's just no getting around that it sucks for spectators.

I'd dig having Grattan and Gingerman on the schedule too. I thought I read at one point that there's sort of an agreement between WERA and CCS that their north central region does not infringe on our midwest region and vice versa? I might have completely fabricated that in my head. The east coast is populated enough to support both.

We've circumvented Chicago traffic by leaving late the night before. Chi traffic isn't awful at 2AM. Then take our time packing up, get dinner, and make sure it's later when we go home. We even take the non-toll route (since we did the math and save over $300 in tolls in one summer of going from Mil to ACC, Grattan, and GMan) and the time isn't too terrible. I mean... it sucks, but it's typically bearable.

It could be worse, CRA gets one track.

What about Bluegrass? (whenever it opens)