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Safety at PBIR

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redlinepilot

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2009, 11:36:53 pm »
I'm an optimist, my perspective is nothing ventured nothing gained. The FAQ is what would be recommended at the riders meeting as the Novice Guide. In the guide would be the "What if column" and the "How to column" for general tips but regardless of the initial format, it's clean, straight forward and logical. No one has to worry about stepping on anyone toes because it is rider generated for riders. As Experts we would be expected to practice what we preach and be resource for those who reach out. Now if you approach me in the pits when I have a free moment... sure what ya need kind of help, just a couple of things to get them on their merry way but the FAQ is still the Guide, really.  Almost anything you do today has a link with FAQ's but it takes effort, time and commitment to produce this knowledge base in a user friendly format. If you don't have the time or not interested in volunteering  your time I would understand but we could delegate or segment some of the tasks to other that would like to contribute....didn't I see your name on the front of the Forum as Administrator?  Yes we can!
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Steve Guanche
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roadracer162

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2009, 06:12:05 am »
Greg and Steve,

I think we have a good start here where kicking around some ideas allow many to view and hopefully gain some insight. Remember when your mother or father would give you advice and it wouldn't make sense at the time. then later you would figure out, "oh that is what they were talking about". I think if you say it then someone else says it, and I say it maybe it will stick.

I started a list of tips on the JGP forum that I will share here also in hope that others will add to the list. I am summarizing what others are advising but just doesn't know how to go about telling a group. If we put the list or the FAQ's together then I will get them printed. It will be my effort towards self preservation so that I don't get taken out by that faster Amateur on a big bike.

I too am of the same thinking. One statement I have made to Nancy is, "if I can't tell you why I crashed then I have no business getting back on the track". My thinking behind the statement is if I don't know what I did wrong then I am just going to do it again probably with the same result or even worse.

So the first rider tip, if we all can agree;

1) Know how you crashed and how to correct it. It's not the tire.

2) Don't try a pass on the outside of a 125GP, especially when Wenner is on it. I am sure glad you tried the outside and not the inside.

3) Keep the ego in check. It goes a long way for your own safety and the safety of your competitors.

Mark
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

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redlinepilot

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2009, 01:02:12 pm »
Here is a link on how other racing organzations are providing Novice support.

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=8026
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Steve Guanche
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redlinepilot

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2009, 01:15:08 pm »
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Steve Guanche
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GregGorman

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2009, 05:27:40 pm »
I like seeing this thread include ideas for rider education.  Attacking this problem from multiple angles is a good way to go.  Big Brother/Sister racers is a good idea.  Of course the Big B/S would need some kind of verification they know what's going on too. 

Instead of throwing novices off the deep end and say swim.  Work to improve them throughout the whole season.  It could improve the whole level of the sport.
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Graham

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2009, 08:54:41 pm »
Racers can also sign up for advance racing school to.Even experts, theres always something to learn.Another way is to contact the racing schools and let the instructors know alot of riders are struggling with some of the on track desciplines and maybe point out this to the instructors, so maybe they can go into more detail about it with the students.Just a thought...
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redlinepilot

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2009, 09:08:38 pm »
Racers can also sign up for advance racing school to.Even experts, theres always something to learn.Another way is to contact the racing schools and let the instructors know alot of riders are struggling with some of the on track desciplines and maybe point out this to the instructors, so maybe they can go into more detail about it with the students.Just a thought...

Brad, click on the links posted on Reply 50 and 51. It's true what you say if you have the means and opportunity. The thread reponses on those links speaks volumns.
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Steve Guanche
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roadracer162

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2009, 10:34:40 pm »
Racers can also sign up for advance racing school to.Even experts, theres always something to learn.Another way is to contact the racing schools and let the instructors know alot of riders are struggling with some of the on track desciplines and maybe point out this to the instructors, so maybe they can go into more detail about it with the students.Just a thought...

True, true...I attended the Penguin School December 2008 after 5 seasons of racing. I must tell you I learned some good riding tips to help me along and gave me some tools that I use today to learn new tracks.

I like the statement that Eric Wood made. He stated that this is a racetrack and in a racetrack environment there will be individuals going fast even to the point of pushing their abilities. If they crash while doing so and take you out, they are Really Really really sorry.

Frank Kinsey has also stated whether it is a race weekend, race day,  or track day when there are two motorcycles on track it is a race so ride accordingly smart.

Mark
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

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redlinepilot

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2009, 08:25:05 am »
ONLINE RACE TRACK  ORIENTATION AND VISUAL AIDES

Looking at the Summit Point Motorsports Park web site I discovered that they have an animated discription of each section of the course and explanation of the race line, entry approach, path and exit of those sections. Additionally provided is a video of an on track car circulating the track while a track map to the side of the video indicates car position.
Excellent tools for all to use.

http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/
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Steve Guanche
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RAISING CANE

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2009, 10:12:19 pm »
Racers can also sign up for advance racing school to.Even experts, theres always something to learn.Another way is to contact the racing schools and let the instructors know alot of riders are struggling with some of the on track desciplines and maybe point out this to the instructors, so maybe they can go into more detail about it with the students.Just a thought...


I fully agree Brad...I took the Penguin advanced school beginning 08 season and had one of my best weekends ever....also took a few very good bits of info that I can use at any track and some that were specific to Homestead. Have recently thought of taking it again at the start of 2010 season. To quote another Eric Wood instruction "This is the advanced racing school! Today you are going to be either on the brakes 100% or on the gas 100% thats it ,no coasting today".

I found it to be far different than the original licencing school. The advanced school was a true race school.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 10:23:16 pm by RAISING CANE »
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Glenn Penland
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RAISING CANE

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2009, 11:01:13 pm »
Wise man you are Mr Melka.

I do believe that some proactive atttitudes can go a long way. I think that one of those attitudes is in the aspect of training. Training for the new rider and even the experienced rider. Training for the corner worker and even training for the casual observer. How many times have we seen spectators running onto the track as a good samaritan. The corner-worker can benefit by realizing that he/she may not know everything about a given situation.

One such training topic that directly aligns with safety is the statement, "Hold your line". What does that means to you? let me hear what you have and I will give you my take on it.

Mark


Very true Mark.....you may have herd this but while working T1 at Moroso 04 season  a guy on a 2 stroke in Saturday practice went down and slid all the way out to the tire wall by the canal. Race control radioed down to me that a woman was running up behind me at that I needed to keep her from getting onto the track. The rider had picked up and cleared out immediately but his wife was just going to run out there. She was frantic screaming....I grabbed her and told her that he was fine. She fell to the ground and sat there for a while crying.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 11:04:05 pm by RAISING CANE »
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roadracer162

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Re: Safety at PBIR
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2009, 01:06:30 pm »
Glen- It is such a common thing to find even on the streets where the family member comes to the aid of the loved one involved in a crash. The point is though let the guys and gals trained to do that job actually do it and don't become another victim of the crash. It may seem forever for EMS help to get there but being an obstacle on the track doesn't help either.

I think the Florida Region has in the past suspended individuals from racing and require them to do a little cornerworking.

So "hold your line" to me is similar to other commens from Greg and Steve.
Me passing you-I do believe that staying on your racing line is the best approach. Don't try to get out of my way even if you see me coming, just don't try to race with me if I am clearly faster or we are not racing for position(EX/AM). I recently gave my brother the advice to try not to use all of the track when exiting a corner but leave room on the outside as a safety margin, first for him if he runs wide and for that faster rider that comes up at that particular moment. Sadly, just tat happened to me racing with Kyle Keesee in Ultralight. Kyle got by my brother on the inside just before the apex and me trailing behind used the outside right after, then my brother ran wide.

If you are on the faster bike or faster rider than me- I will hold my race line. I won't try to fight back if you have made a pass on me. So many times guys with bigger faster guys have come blasting in a turn under me only to blow it the turn. Yeah I had the opportunity to stuff it back up the inside but didn't. Why should I take that chance of coming together only to be passed again down the straight? If you are clearly faster I will let you have the position.

Mark
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.