Daytona my crash.....anybody get it on film???

[XFACTOR]

The Dog leg at Daytona, sometimes it just kicks ya...

and it was a good kick   lol

[XFACTOR]

      My friend, everyone reading this thread sees you for the class act you are. It has NOTHING to do with my third consecutive #2 plate or if I'm a rider that gets lapped 3 times in every race. Furthermore, I DONT CARE to know you, but when you call people names on a public forum, prepare to be called out for what likely REALLY happened.
      Right out of the gate you call a known tire distributor with YEARS of experience at Daytona a "big fat A-HOLE" on a public forum and spout "my tires suck, thats' why i crashed on the warm up lap" and form the conspiracy theory with another peson in this thread that Dunlop was just getting rid of old stock and put you in danger.. yet by some MIRACLE everyone else in the race managed to finish. My gosh, im getting my Sunday suit on right now as as i just realized it HAD to be divine intervention that saved all the other riders on that warm up lap.!!!  im sure Steve Bruebaker singled you out to give you the worst tires possible.. How unfortunate for you on that warm up lap. Can I have an AMEN Lord, for sparing everyone but the all knowing XFACTOR from crashing on the Dunlop tires..Thank you LORD!
      Lastly, somehow all your vast experience did not lead you to understand that AT DAYTONA.. regular tires with softer compounds often won't work. (hence the need for "DAYTONA TIRES") Had you been given the tire you wanted, you likely would have been bitching about the fact it chunked or worse, had a horrific crash when it did chunk. SO..harder tire will last but you need to take more care, especially on warm up laps (hence the term "warm up lap"). Lots and lots of other riders seem to grasp this important bit of info. 

     Bro, Im sorry your bike got trashed. Crashing is expensive and limits the amount of racing we get to do, and Im glad you did not get hurt. But you should learn to control the name calling when trying to make excuses for yourself.

are you just upset I've stood up to you on your comment towards me? 
tire vendor with years of experience.....???  he sells them, not engineers them, and dealing with him is anything but a pleasure.....this is known by racers and the Dunlop guys. Why are you going to bat for him anyway? I also know why there is "Daytona" tires, thank you for telling me things I already knew.  As for everyone reading this....Class act???  I call it like I see it, sorry if you don't like it. I should mention the 2 private messages I got regarding peoples opinions of you.  I don't care to know you either, I'm glad we agree on something. Thank you for the kind words of my not getting hurt, and yes my bikes thrashed up pretty good, but we all know that's a risk we take when we throw a leg over one of these things.
  I'm tiring of this thread.............we don't agree, we won't agree...............agreed? 

[MELK-MAN]

Upset? Hardly. It's just sad you just never got the point I tried to get across or your just trying to backpedal after the fact. Im not sure which. Another point I have tried in vain to get across to you, is that I would have done the same thing no matter who you blamed your misfortune on.. in the manner you did it. Calling somebody a "big fat a-hole" and other things out in public like you did because you fell down on a warm up lap is just kinda wrong.
I can sleep quite well knowing my ethics come before my need to have every person on this and other forums like me..

[XFACTOR]

sleep well then "MILKMAN"    sleep well

[GregGorman]

Wow!  Greg rides Michelin tires too.

From personal experience, a non-Daytona rear will overheat and chunk in 5 laps.  Happened to me last year when Steve thought I was going out in qualifying and I went out in the GTO race.  My fault for not checking the compound before putting it on.  Steve gave me another set. 

A non-Daytona front will show no signs of bad wear and will critically fail.  Happened to me this year when I left a non-Daytona front on for Thursday practice, 4 sessions, and Friday morning's practice, 2 sessions.  In the 2nd session Friday morning, I crashed in the International Horseshoe because the front tire was flat.  The tire had been over heating the the plys were coming apart.  I was very lucky to have crashed where I did.

As for the tires sliding as quickly as they did: They were spinning a lot on the banking,especially the west banking which was in the shade.  This causes a lot of wear on the left center of the tire and changes the profile of the tire very quickly.  About 1.5 inches of the far left side of the tire doesn't get worn on the banking.  That portion of the tire is used in Turns 1, the dogleg and 6.  The difference in wear creates a high spot on the tire and reduces the contact patch.  That make the slide more easily.  The solution is to lean it over a bit more when everything is telling you not to or to pick it up a little bit and spin it.

As for Steve being an A-hole.  Bah, he's been called worse.  But he's got a knowledge of tires, tire wear, compounds, and riding that would benefit any rider regardless of brand.  He's worked with the absolute best in the business.

The tire guys don't just sell tires.  They work with their customers to get them faster so they can sell more tires.  They have a knowledge of how they're made, why they're made that way, how to use tire warmers, what changes you can expect with different tire pressures, and can point you in a direction for suspension adjustments.

[XFACTOR]

I felt the spin on the banking your talking about, I was never that confident with the fronts, even on Thurs. and Fri when it was much warmer, they just didn't stick, as my tires did all year, they just felt different. I told him (steve) and wasn't given a compound choice or tire pressure change suggestion, he just blew me off. I spend the same money just like the Experts do, for the tires, don't blow me off. The tire I crashed with had 6 laps on it, it actually felt damn good in my last race, which was 4 before I crashed. It showed no abnormal signs of wear.  I've just never had an experience of no warning with a Dunlop, it was like I hit oil or antifreeze.

[skiandclimb]

Where's the little emoticon with the little guy eating popcorn???  lol

You guys remember someone talking about cage matches and the $$$ going to the Red Flag Fund?  I vote for a MMA match between XFACTOR & MELKMAN!

I digress.....please continue.

[MELK-MAN]

I felt the spin on the banking your talking about, I was never that confident with the fronts, even on Thurs. and Fri when it was much warmer, they just didn't stick, as my tires did all year, they just felt different. I told him (steve) and wasn't given a compound choice or tire pressure change suggestion, he just blew me off. I spend the same money just like the Experts do, for the tires, don't blow me off. The tire I crashed with had 6 laps on it, it actually felt damn good in my last race, which was 4 before I crashed. It showed no abnormal signs of wear.  I've just never had an experience of no warning with a Dunlop, it was like I hit oil or antifreeze.

I would try to take it as a learning experience, that the Daytona tires are super hard and you have to give em extra time to warm up. I wish Michelin would bring a daytona specific tire. On a 600 the regular stuff works ok, but on  a 1000 they have a tough time not chunking rubber that works AWESOmE everywhere else. Daytona is just that burtal on that small area just left of center. Even on the front tires pushing out of the big nascar turns. Now you know what to expect if you do return to Daytona.

Where's the little emoticon with the little guy eating popcorn???  lol

You guys remember someone talking about cage matches and the $$$ going to the Red Flag Fund?  I vote for a MMA match between XFACTOR & MELKMAN!

I digress.....please continue.

Never happen, he would probably kick my little ass and that would be that. I never was much of a fighter. Especially since the shoulder surgery that i just had a week after VIR, from a dirt bike accident the week before vir.. i didn't make it better on the broken arm racing at VIR a few weeks back that is for sure. Should have skipped that event but we do crazy stuff. http://www.ebcbrakesblog.com/ scroll down a bit..
Im not pro Dunlop, im just pro don't call anyone bad names when there could be alot more to the situation. I would have done the same for lots of people or things.

[GregGorman]

I don't know why you crashed but there's several factors involved.  The dogleg is a notorious turn because of the dip in the middle of it and a tendency to turn in too early for it making you run wide at the exit.  Combine those factors with the hard left side of the tire and its a tricky corner that can catch you out real quickly.

At Daytona, you can't consider the left side warm until you've gone around the banking - that's what it's designed for.

Now, I've been coaching with the California Superbike School for several years.  I'm not saying that to show you how superior I am but just so you know where I'm coming from when I say what I'm about to say.  When students crash and they were going through a turn just like they normally did and lost the rear without warning the most probable cause is they were adding lean angle and throttle at the same time.  Riders don't even know they're doing it and we pull them in and talk to them about it immediately.

I don't know why you crashed but I do know there's a lot of factors involved.  You owe it to yourself as a racer to very critically evaluate each factor and see what its relationship to your crash was.

Throttle, were you on or off it?
Body position, were you hanging off with upper body to the inside or over the tank?
Rider Input, were tight on the bars?
Lean angle, were you set, adding, or picking the bike up?
Tires, were they cold, at operating temperature or over heated?
Surface, cold, hot, debris, fluids?
Visual, where were you looking, what reference point was next?
Line, were you on your line? did you hit the entry and mid-corner reference points you expected to hit?
You In General, were you up to speed yet?

Looking at your laptimes, you're a decent rider.  Unless you break down your failures and SUCCESSES!!!! to the basics and know what you're really doing, you're not going to improve as quickly or safely as you want.

[f3racer]

Never happen, he would probably kick my little ass and that would be that. I never was much of a fighter.

if he doesnt know what you look like then just hire Anderson Silva to stand in your place. HA

[XFACTOR]

I've taken CSS levels 1 and 2, learned ALOT.
I`ve been trying to figure what I did differently at that moment of the rear letting go and really can't come up with anything concrete, I don't think I hit the dip at the moment of traction loss, I had hit it so much harder earlier racing and felt the front almost go out.
Thanks for your input, I'll keep thinking........but my head got a bald spot from me scratching

[MELK-MAN]

Glad this thread got on a more constructive note. Thanks.