Are there any attorneys on this board? Legal exposure question.

[NOBODY]

I have feared the same thing.  Everybody signs a waiver at the entrance, doesn't that cover that?  Besides, they would have to prove it was you.  Who knows it was you under the helmet?

[DEVINC]

either way its bad, who you gonna sue or who'd you take out?

Sobottka, I have no intentions on sueing anyone. I wouldn't if I got taken out. I also don't plan on taking anybody out, intentionally or non. I bring this up because it was brought up to me at work today. Some of the people there seemed to think that I, or anybody out there would be at great exposure of getting sued if I was to cause a wreck. I'm even talking about if I had tire failure and my bike hit someone elses, not just "taking someone out". Now I work for a couple of independent certified financial planners. No, they are not lawyers, but they own their business and know how things work on their end of being exposed in legal matters. They were just telling me that they think there would be a kind of high possibility that someone could file suit in this matter. It was only conversation but got me thinking about it. What if? They also realize that they don't know 100% how the law works esp. in the situation of our type of activity. Just their thoughts. I accept the risks taken every time I go out. I try to be safe as I can. I have never "ran into" anyone before, nor have I taken someone out due to my own personal wreck. You took this the wrong way. Maybe it's the way I worded things. I don't know. Just to let anyone that cares know, like I said before, I don't intend on sueing ever, or taking anyone out purposely. It was just a thought because smart people that I work with brought it to my attention. I'm 20 years old, so I don't know how shit really works in that sense. Just all sounds freaky to me of the possibility of being sued. I am broke as hell as it is (like many others around here  ) And the whole Dan and Bob story were just names I made up to give an example of my question. So no, it is not bad either way on my part for bringing this up.

Seems that way.

I guess I understood.

I don't remember anyone getting sued for on track activities.  If someone is going to get sued, for just cause or not, there needs to be money at the end to seek as a goal.  It's my opinion that that can be a hurdle alone as a lot of racers are kind of broke.  Certainly aren't carrying the liability coverage that a race track or an organization would have to cover being sued. 

You can't get blood out of a rock, you know?

I know what you are saying. It is just a worry I felt like bringing up. I'm glad that you understand that I am not on either side of this question. I wouldn't sue anyone if they caused me to wreck. It's happened before, wasn't badly injured, but I still wouldn't think about it either way. And I'd NEVER intentionally take someone out. Ever. Just seems like a messed up world out there and I'd hate to see that happen to me or anyone else.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

I think you should had put "hypothetical situation" in the first post.

I pretty much think anyone who tried to sue another racer and/or the org for a racing accident would probably be drummed right out of racing aka blackballed. I dont think I ever heard of anyone intentionally crashing someone in CCS.

Now I have dealt with pissed off friends of racers I've taken back to their pits with the crash truck. One guy was screaming the other guy should be paying to fix his friends/son's/whatever's bike. They were starting a "feeding frenzy" getting all the people with him wound up and wanting to go over to the other guy and "deal with him". Basically told the ring leader that if he or anyone else in their entourage goes over there to start something, their racer will be kicked out and banned from racing again (added that last part just for effect). He settled down real quick.

For the most part most people just find eachother and apologize and laugh about it later.

[Super Dave]

I have feared the same thing.  Everybody signs a waiver at the entrance, doesn't that cover that?  Besides, they would have to prove it was you.  Who knows it was you under the helmet?

Race tracks and racing organizations have been sued.  Successfully.  Most individuals are honorable folks that recognize the risks involved in what they do and where they go.  However, this is not always the case. 

[Sobottka]

Sobottka, I have no intentions on sueing anyone. I wouldn't if I got taken out. I also don't plan on taking anybody out, intentionally or non. I bring this up because it was brought up to me at work today. Some of the people there seemed to think that I, or anybody out there would be at great exposure of getting sued if I was to cause a wreck. I'm even talking about if I had tire failure and my bike hit someone elses, not just "taking someone out". Now I work for a couple of independent certified financial planners. No, they are not lawyers, but they own their business and know how things work on their end of being exposed in legal matters. They were just telling me that they think there would be a kind of high possibility that someone could file suit in this matter. It was only conversation but got me thinking about it. What if? They also realize that they don't know 100% how the law works esp. in the situation of our type of activity. Just their thoughts. I accept the risks taken every time I go out. I try to be safe as I can. I have never "ran into" anyone before, nor have I taken someone out due to my own personal wreck. You took this the wrong way. Maybe it's the way I worded things. I don't know. Just to let anyone that cares know, like I said before, I don't intend on sueing ever, or taking anyone out purposely. It was just a thought because smart people that I work with brought it to my attention. I'm 20 years old, so I don't know how shit really works in that sense. Just all sounds freaky to me of the possibility of being sued. I am broke as hell as it is (like many others around here  ) And the whole Dan and Bob story were just names I made up to give an example of my question. So no, it is not bad either way on my part for bringing this up.

I know what you are saying. It is just a worry I felt like bringing up. I'm glad that you understand that I am not on either side of this question. I wouldn't sue anyone if they caused me to wreck. It's happened before, wasn't badly injured, but I still wouldn't think about it either way. And I'd NEVER intentionally take someone out. Ever. Just seems like a messed up world out there and I'd hate to see that happen to me or anyone else.

glad I mis-understood 

[DEVINC]

Woofentino,

I should have put "hypothetical", you're right. That sounds reasonable about blackballing someone. I would never want to be the one to try and start something like that.

Super Dave,
I know a lot of people around here are honorable. Most everyone I've met have been helpful or friendly in some way.

Sobottka,
I'm glad it was misunderstood at first. I don't want to be thought of as some guy that would try to take someone out if i was "mad" nor sue someone for accidents. Def. not me. 

[dylanfan53]

Race tracks and racing organizations have been sued.  Successfully.  Most individuals are honorable folks that recognize the risks involved in what they do and where they go.  However, this is not always the case. 

Gross negligence is gross negligence and the signing of a waiver is a weak defense against it, legally and ethically.

Fortunately, as Dave mentions, most racers are honorable.  They also have a vested interest in the well-being of their bodies and machinery which minimizes stupidity (on the track at least).

Good question though, DeVinc.  I think its wise for racers to have personal liability insurance appropriate to their economic situation.     

[roadracer162]

so i guess everyone took this topic the wrong way?

Ahhh Devin, you are showing your youth...LOL. If you start any conversation with, "I want to find a lawyer" you are gonna get the reception you have thus far. Anyone reading that will most likely take it as if you want the lawyer to sue someone.

I know what you are thinking and maybe phrasing your intent in a different way would have a different outcome. Don't fear too much about your own liability on track for damages incurred while racing,or in the possible case of crashing.

There have been a couple cases that I know of where a suit was drawn up, but that was more of a shotgun blast and found whoever it stuck to. I am not sure of the total outcome. The suit was initiated by the family.

As a racer I would ask you to not race too far over your limits. Doing so usually results in that racer out of control and more like a bowling ball.

Mark

[funsizeracing]

I hope that's not directed at me. I am prepared to crash. It's not about that. I just was wondering the chances of being sued. I would never be the one to bring an attorney into it. Just dont wanna be sued myself. I'm sure there are some people that would try it.

No, no not directed at anyone.  Just my general feeling. 
It has crossed my mind too.
That's the plus side to being 25 and spending all your money on racing.  They could try to sue, but all they'd get is a few crashed motorcycles and a mini fridge filled with Stag.

[Jeff]

The whole "theory" and "honorable" "responsible" concepts presented in this thread have no relevance in any legal proceedings.  Could you sue someone?  Yes.  Would you win?  Perhaps.  Would it be that difficult to prove negligence/malice?  Not really.  Would you win much and actually collect it?  I HIGHLY doubt it...

Racers for the most part are some of the LEAST wealthy people I've ever met.  Not saying they're poor, but saying that everything they have is stuck into racing, and, well, you're not going to get much out of that. 

People can and do sue others for ridiculous shit every day.  And win!

So are you at risk?  Of course you are! 

One thing I found comical was that a certain race track in the midwest required the RFF to have a $1M liability insurance policy in place, naming the track as the beneficiary IN CASE someone were to be "hurt" on our display, trip over something, etc, and then sue the track.  I won the fight 2 years running that "you don't require ANY racer, or race team to provide the same insurance and their areas are a HELL of a lot more dangerous than our CHARITY is".  They told us not to come back on the 3rd year unless we were willing to provide the insurance...

If you really want to cover your ass, get some liability insurance (like $1M).  Just don't tell anyone or they'll suddenly hurt themselves at your paddock...

[backMARKr]

Australia is lookin better and better all the time...... 8)

[2old2fat2slow]

Lawyers are an important part of our ecosystem. When they die, they become a part of the food chain providing nutrients in the soil for vegatation to absorb through their roots. I guess that's kind of important,ain't it?