Mladin out at HPT even as Track makes last minute changes

Started by Burt Munro, July 30, 2009, 11:23:41 PM

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Super Dave

Quote from: Noidly1 on August 01, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
It was designed for drag racing first, the road coarse came later.
No.  Paul Newman and a bunch of other guys that were part of the car road racing scene were the visionaries that wanted a road course in the center of the US.  However, it was logical to have it be a multipurpose facility. 

Course
Super Dave

backMARKr

Quote from: Noidly1 on August 01, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
So, All I can say to Mat is...  Chick Chick C H I C k E N :wah:  :biggrin:

:err:  wow....just wow.

and I think my high school students make ignorant statements.
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Super Dave

Quote from: Noidly1 on August 01, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
So, All I can say to Mat is...  Chick Chick C H I C k E N :wah:  :biggrin:
There's an opening at Yosh.  Apply for Mat's job.  Keep us updated on your progress.
Super Dave

Jeff

Yes, the track "is what it is", but so are the street courses of Europe.  Not everybody can accept the level of risk associated with a given track/location/event, and I commend those that actually have balls enough to say "not worth it" and sit it out. 

Dunno... Maybe it's just me, having been on the other end of the phone from sobbing wives/parents/children/friends who have had some serious regrets over a dangerous situation...  To each his own.
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Ducmarc

malidan is the one riding at 100% on a 100% motorcycle  maybe he's complained quietly and no one has listened so he's at a point in he's career where you don't bounce back from injury so if there is a risk and he does think it's manageable why shouldn't he sit it out. did it not take duhamel's serious and basicily career ending injury to change parts of road atlanta . the track does not want bad press . if super dave gets killed oh well if mat gets killed it will be on wind tunnel. i think everyone who races there should thank him . and in a way the track should thank him . maybe things will get fixed now . there is a reason we don't ride around hollywood anymore (besides red buttons )it was a P.O.S.  if i was a track owner i would want someone like mat to tell me whats wrong and what i need to fix . insead of hoping everyweekend no one gets killed and their family  sues the crap out of me ( like at moroso). now if they don't address the problems that matt points out and a few weeks from now someone gets killed or seriouslly injured  what is the family lawyer going to say? yes this is a dangerous sport but can it be safer and is there negligence for not fixing it.

r1owner

Quote from: Ducmarc on August 01, 2009, 02:39:02 PM
and is there negligence for not fixing it.

I don't think you''re going to get anywhere with negligence.... You see the walls... you either decide to race or not.... negligence is when there's like a 25 foot deep hole right after turn1 in the middle of the track and they cover it up with a tarp and forget to tell you. ;)

But in essence, I agree with you completely... I don't understand why it takes so much effort to get a front end loader out and move some concrete barriers, dig some dirt and throw gravel in it.  Seriously.

Ducmarc

I'll say about negligence I'm not a lawyer and do not have a high opinion of most of them but they are everywhere and are always hungry.
if you have a professional multiple championship racer say that wall is too close and they don't move it and the next week someone hits it and gets killed look who the expert witness is. just ask your wife mother father or sister would you sue on your behalf cuz you hit the same wall that the Matt says should be moved and wasn't.  Yes the hole covered is negligence but the inability to act on an issue is negligence also. i wish i could find the details of a lawsuit brought against moroso and several people on the food chain a few years ago . but someones insurance finally settled.in that instance the rider was hit and killed a another rider after crashing still everyone was sued.

Ducmarc

did a little research and found that racer Aurther Wagner sued and won against SFX  for a crash at HPT during an SFX race in 03. he won $1.5 milion after hitting a wall. seems strange the they won against the promotor and not the track. they also stated that had it not been a jury trial he would not have won that was in RRW  2-13-08. so they have been sued at least once and still don't listen .

Noidly1

Ahhh... Feeling the love.

Quote from: Super Dave on August 01, 2009, 08:17:28 AM
No.  Paul Newman and a bunch of other guys that were part of the car road racing scene were the visionaries that wanted a road course in the center of the US.  However, it was logical to have it be a multipurpose facility. 

Course
Well, by judging the layout and Google Earth pics from back in '91, I thought it was drag first.
Either way, any facility that has both types of tracks on top of each other, will have problems.

I understand everyones concerns and yes there have been some really bad crashes. Things can be corrected.
If these tracks are so bad, then why does CCS, WERA, and others, hold events at these places?
Also, if they are so bad then why do all the people go to them, even on track days, in the first place?
Are we that stupid or just lucky?


Just wondering, How many tracks are there in the U.S. that Don't have problems?
'08 R6, CCSGP44EX

tug296

 Most of the cheapskate owners of these car tracks are not willing to pay up to make the improvements that it takes to make them motorcycle safe.
Laguna Seca had Yamaha help to make improvements to meet FIM standards.

Miller spent lots of money but got it right.
Europe has some nice tracks where no complaints are heard.
Jennings is deluxe, but had a tree problem.

If I had the money I'd build one and do it right.

$

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Florida Region,  
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Ducmarc

i understand nothings perfect but the safer tracks would not have any walls lots of flat runoff . i don't know if anyone has explored rider safety and track layout as their college thesis. (maybe i will since I'm too crippled to be a mechanic anymore) but I'm wondering if there is any statistical difference between like homestead with all it's walls lack of runoff and transitions from oval to road course and say Jennings lay ed out for motorcycles by motorcyclist. I've crashed at Jennings by far more times than anywhere else worse than anywhere else (but I lived also) it maybe if you feel safe you ride harder than if you didn't. I've never ridden at 100% at homestead and at daytona . I think there was a kind of spook factor that i did not get at Jennings moroso CMP or roebling

Super Dave

Quote from: tug296 on August 01, 2009, 08:10:10 PM
Most of the cheapskate owners of these car tracks are not willing to pay up to make the improvements that it takes to make them motorcycle safe.
Well, let's put that idea to rest.

Track cars and race cars are expensive.  Often, more expensive than a couple of top flight AMA Supersport bikes.  And when walls and ditches are put in place, they cause a lot of damage to those more expensive vehicles.

On the one project we worked on, it was quite simple.  The client wanted motorcycle standards as by fulfilling something that keeps motorcyclist safe and financially better off, their car clients would be better off too.  What's generally dumb for bikes is still dumb for cars. 


What I'm finding troubling is that on some boards, there's little support for the very real aspect of track safety.  Seems like things have gone completely backwards anymore in regards to the ideology that got things changed in the past.
Super Dave