Should it be harder to become an expert?

[danch]

I think that there may be people doing trackdays who may have 'raced' in the past when they wanted the track time rather than the wheel-to-wheel competition. They are very different (or if they're not, you're not doing one or the other right!). A good race is like a weird blend of competition and cooperation - you're trying not to punt each other give one another racing room, but you're not always polite, and sometimes that 'racing room' is very definately 'behind me'. You don't always know what's going to happen or what the other person is going to do, there's enough risk to spice it up, and it's for something, even if it's just bragging rights. A track day _should_ emphasize the cooperation - yeah, one might be faster than the other, but both are riding their own ride and trying to stay out of each other's way. Some people just might not be into the cut-and-thrust of a race, and I'm glad that track days are there for the other side of it.

It might also be that people look at laptimes and decide not to race because they're off the front pace. I try to encourage people to look further in the pack, to look at who they can race. The good thing for racing is that track days give people an opportunity to learn how to control the machine at speed before they get on the track - I think that makes racing safer.

I also have to say, at a track day, it's nice to know what the schedule is going to be. It takes quite an incident to know things off.

Supertwins is going to be a lighter grid because the machines aren't as popular. The state of the economy is probably not helping, either - even middleweight grids are down from last year.

[ktd]

I find racing far less scary than track days.

[danch]

I don't find much difference as far as how safe I feel - either way, I'm the biggest risk to myself. In races, I have to be more careful of putting myself in the way of a rider I'm not sure I can trust. I learned to spot flakiness at track days, but in a NESBA A session, I don't often have to worry about it.

[Ducmarc]

this debate has been the proverbial chicken versus egg here.years back i sold tires at Jennings and rode almost every weekend for about a year i even lead josh day around when he was young .it taught me the track to be smooth to think about the other riders and to pacify any aggression.but not to be fast and calculating. my first practice as a racer i had to throw pacfisin out the window. i've realized also that i.ve never ran to 100% of my ability. if i want to go ride around eat hotdog take long lunch leave the hotel late leave the track early to avoid the drive thru learn a new track i do a track day. if i want to go as fast as my ability allows me, crash, tear up parts, loose sleep ,see my friends, spend more money than i figured i go racing. that seems the difference between the two for me. when you sell tires at a track day the racers flip their tires and the track day guys buy new ones.

[roadracer162]

I find racing far less scary than track days.

I couldn't have said it any better.

[R1Racer99]

Speaking to the issues I see most of you talking about.  It seems to me that track days are really hurting racing.  You go to any track day and it is sold out.  My racing grids were terrible this weekend.  Supertwins this sunday had 3 racers. I think CCS needs to team up with some track day orgs to try and get more people racing.  Find some way to attract people to come over and race.  Even the money is going to the track days.  Have you seen the sponsors for NESBA? They are a non profit and they got parts, tires, trailers, Yamaha, ...... somone is doing something right in dealing with those companies. 

Here in Minnesota, we only have one trackday provider left and it's been hard to generate enough interest to make a trackday profitable. Two trackday orgs. have gone out of business in the last few years. However, the CRA turn-out this year has been great, for example, my middleweight supersport race at BIR in June had 32 novice entries, three weeks earlier at BHF it had 16 I think. I'm worried about spending a bunch of money and not having grids big enough to get contingency with CCS. I've had grids with less than 6 bikes which is how many I need to have the chance to win $175 so that's pretty frustrating. Again, without contingency, I couldn't race this year. 

One other stat that might explain why more people up here race and less do trackdays. I signed up for 8 sprints at the opening HPT double sprint weekend. I think the total was $570, something like that. The last CRA double sprint weekend I signed up for 8 sprints and the total was $225. I'm not complaining about the prices, but maybe that has something to do with it. I know I'd be going to HPT this weekend if I didn't have to spend $500+ for entries. 

[skiandclimb]

I don't think it should be any harder to get the bump to expert, but I do think that one of the problems is the petition letter.  In all honesty- I can see someone doing a bunch of races and getting points, and at the end of the season- petitioning to stay AM for another year if they are new to the scene.  Unless you are on the box all the time, I don't see that as a huge issue.  What I DO see as a huge issue, is those folks who petition a second time.....and CCS lets them stay AM....again.  That is some horse doo-doo IMHO.

[Noidly1]

He said "doo-doo" 

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

So if any of this holds true, why should my for-profit company care about your focus of stopping "the loss of  Expert racers due to the financial aspect"?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Society as a whole (and unfortunately many businesses) have become so focused on what feels good or produces results in the short term that many have lost focus of the bigger picture. An EXCELLENT example of short term thinking by businesses here in the USA is having their products made outside of this country purely because of the profit (thanks massively to the dumbass that ran this country in the late 90's and opened the door, and ultimately encouraged, a massive exodus of jobs leaving this country for China and Mexico all in the name of profit). Look at what has resulted from that, we have a massive influx of cheap low quality products that often times fail very prematurely, and an exponential failure of the manufacturing base in this country because of it. Fortunately some of the work has slowly started to come back to the USA because costs have finally started to rise for things to be made outside of the USA, but it's still unfortunate that this move is almost entirely due to the profit margin and not due to the inferior quality of many of the foreign made products coming out of Mexico and especially China. When a country doesn't have products to sell, the effects of recessions are greatly extended - welcome to what we are seeing now in the USA.

In racing, Contingency is one of those things that could make the difference between long term customers/racers and short term customers/racers. From what I've seen most Amateurs are looking to see what the fast Experts are using for products on their bikes and many follow that lead if they have Contingency programs. If Experts were the only ones recieving Contingency I bet the Amateurs would still be looking to see what the Experts are using for products and which companies will most likely be paying Contingency when they turn Expert as well. Again, I can't emphasize this enough, Amateur status is purely a temporary stop along the way in racing (generally 1-3 seasons), yet companies are thinking short term and trying to create immediate customers as opposed to long term ones.

[alexm]

If Experts were the only ones recieving Contingency I bet the Amateurs would still be looking to see what the Experts are using for products and which companies will most likely be paying Contingency when they turn Expert as well.

You might be right, but it looks like very few companies are willing to make the same bet as you. Amateurs provide a "steady" stream of new customers. What's the chance of a 5 year Dunlop running expert racer switching over to Michelin tires? I'm sure many companies offering amateur contingency programs are trying to build customer loyalty from an early stage and gain market share at the same time. I see nothing wrong with that plan from a short - long term perspective.

Again, I can't emphasize this enough, Amateur status is purely a temporary stop along the way in racing

Hehe, I wish my competition would come to temporary stops during the races...

...yet companies are thinking short term and trying to create immediate customers as opposed to long term ones.

I really don't think that's true, I think they're trying to cover as much ground as possible in terms of units sold and advertising exposure.

[RCR_531]

Maybe more people will go EX to be able to race AMA rounds. i wonder how this will workout next year

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=37248

[crossroads425]

im with ronix.  some guys need to move up