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updated displacement limits?

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Gino230

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2009, 01:00:42 am »
your kama is in the crapper.  ducati prints that book so chris will spend more money

It's working!
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CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

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ktd

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2009, 11:52:37 am »
I am all for the 996 and eariler ducs racing 600's.  I have seen both on the dyno and they are pretty much in the same class...999 is not in the same class.  I don't know personally about the 998 I have not seen them dyno.

I also like to see the older bikes still able to race but not have to go to vintage.  I think this is a really good idea.
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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2009, 01:53:03 pm »
996 has 30+ ft lbs of torque over a new 600. Torque is acceleration. Saying a liter twin desmo is in the same class as a 600 is like saying a neon is in the same class as a ACR viper.
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Rob
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ktd

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 03:49:01 pm »
or saying my truck with 500FTLBS of torque could take a Neon.  Or my old 97 Buell.  Made 100lbs of Torque after I spent thousands on it.  Couldn't outrun any 600 with 50lbs.  Revs make the difference and are as much of an advantage as any Torque.

Torque is going to help in first gear only so there might be some advantage on the start but as speed increases the advantage will decrease.  Two engines with identical horsepower are going to do identical amounts of work.  Not to mention in this case weight of an out dated bike.  If you think torque is an advantage on curves you should whack the throttle open on a 1098 like the guys do on the I-4's.

If you want to understand how work is done actually read this.  There are advantages and disadvantages to both but is it set equal by gearing.
http://craig.backfire.ca/pages/autos/horsepower

Saying that do I think an 1125 Buell should be racing 600 in AMA.  No.  It has more Horsepower which translates to more work done.  But look at the Aprilla 1000.  It isn’t any faster than the 600. 

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Cowboy 6

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2009, 05:45:05 pm »
996 has 30+ ft lbs of torque over a new 600. Torque is acceleration. Saying a liter twin desmo is in the same class as a 600 is like saying a neon is in the same class as a ACR viper.

And yet a 1200+ Buell with 50 ft lbs more torque than an SV650 is still running Lightweight.....
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C6

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Ducmarc

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2009, 06:46:59 pm »
the 998 is a 999 motor in a 996 chassis which i think is a better chassis than the 999 there are few 996's out there that can whack a decient running 600 . their heavy, slow turning, slow building horsepower and most only make 110 to 120 hp a good 748rs will spank about any 996 silghtly less hp but rev's higher and quicker. ducati knows this that's why the took the stroke out of their motors and run gaint pistons (of course this also allows for big valves and less cam for reliability)i think instead of droping vintage change it to vintage superbike with a ten year 1000cc limit since it seems we all have a 10 yr old superbike collecting dust
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Ducmarc

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2009, 07:06:34 pm »


make middleweight vintage in lines 600 +1mm twins 750+ 1MM 17 inch rims and slicks then all the fzrs and f2s vs650 and maybe the evil 748 will have a place to play. heavyweight 1000 inlines and 1000 twins that would give the zx7,tl1000 gixr750 a place to play and put them in 2 waves combined or ditch another class that no one shows up to. that would bring more bikes to the track and it's bikes we already have and are connected to.isn't this an old farts debate anyway
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roadracer162

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2009, 07:20:26 pm »
I would need a +2 on my FZR to keep up with that bad boy 748. No chance of beating it though.

Mark
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Mark Tenn
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Ducmarc

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2009, 07:27:53 pm »
ok +2 and i have to start with both hands on my helmet of course how you going to ride 2 bikes at once? i'm trying to get us a leg up here
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roadracer162

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2009, 06:28:25 am »
ok +2 and i have to start with both hands on my helmet of course how you going to ride 2 bikes at once? i'm trying to get us a leg up here

Back up bike
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

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Gino230

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2009, 12:50:02 am »
996 has 30+ ft lbs of torque over a new 600. Torque is acceleration. Saying a liter twin desmo is in the same class as a 600 is like saying a neon is in the same class as a ACR viper.

Well, my 1000DS makes 65ft / lb of torque, but I don't think anyone who has ever raced one thinks it's competitive with a 600.

This debate could go on forever, but let's get down to brass tacks: On the track, the old 996 is best matched against modern 600s.
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CCS / ASRA EX # 23
2012 Ducati 848 / 1100 Conversion     2005 Ducati 749RS
2006 CCS Florida Thunderbike Champion (AM)
2008 CCS LW Supersport National Champion (EX) 2nd in 2011 and now  2012....damn you Mavros!

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roadracer162

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Re: updated displacement limits?
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2009, 08:30:10 pm »
The problem is the mentality that if you are on a 2001 then it is vintage. Then the only thought comes to mind is that this is club racing. There should be a place to race that vintage bike with someone to race with. I am not asking to be at the front always but I would rather not get lapped. Then there will be the other argument that someone will make that vintage bike light as can be and so much HP that it will run away from the rest of the field. The answer to that is there will always be that bike.

On occasion I race my Ultralight legal Ducati 800 in GT lights and I enjoy it. Will I ever win a race? Probably not, but maybe if it rains I might.

Mark
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 11:52:28 am by skidMARK »
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Mark Tenn
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Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.