Data acquisition systems

[123user]

There are certainly good data aquisition systems available for way less than $5000, but the issue is:  How difficult is the installation? and How difficult is the data to understand?

Basically there are three types of data that result:
1.  What are you (the rider) doing?
2.  What is the motor doing?
3.  What is the chassis doing?

The most significant of these is probably the 1st one.  So a system that has RPM and TPS inputs, along with internal GPS and accelerometers will show you where you're braking, where you're turning in, and when you get on the throttle.  For most people, this is as sophisticated as is necessary.

The motor dynamics is also understandable to the lay-racer, but probably needs someone who really understands what's going on with FI mapping to make full use of it.

The chassis data is the least digestable.  Here we're talking about 10 different things all happening at the same time.  For gathering this data, its important to have a very fast update rate, I'd consider 75-100Hz to be the minimum.  Even at 100Hz, your only picking up data every 1 foot @ 80MPH.  Here its very important to have good software that will use data from all sources to accurately graph whats going on.

It's important to consider that all of this is still in its infancy, and that even Moto-GP teams are struggling to understand all the data they can collect.  Its unlikely that there will ever be system available that will gather data from 20 laps and afterwards say:  "take out 1/4 turn of rebound".  At least for now you'll need a good understanding of data manipulation to get good results.

If you choose to use a system that is not supported by local builders (like speed tech),  you're pretty much just on your own.  So if you're not a rocket scientist or similar, just buy what everybody else is buying.

[Scotty Ryan]

I think that Jason pretty much summed it up right there... Data is Very Important... Even if it's just the info you write down in your notebook after you get back in from a practice or qualifying session..

[Tiger]

Again, the low cost entry level system is the goal for this year.  I can swing $500 or $800, but not $2k or more.  Hoping to get into bike speed, engine RPM, and maybe a wheel or exhaust sensor.  4 inputs is probably enough.  Next year, if I'm still looking to learn and expand on this data acquisition stuff, I can sell the entry level system off and upgrade.  Spending enough already this year, as you all know the budget side of things. 

The three leading candidates in my price range:

1. MyChron Light TG LOG for $550 which includes the RPM, water temperature, wheel speed, and throttle position sensors along with the USB cable, one beacon, and Race Studio 2 software.  Seems like a decent starter package, but it can not be built upon later (it is what it is).  Sample rate only 10 hz per channel.

2. Starlane GPS system (Athon R for $800 with PC download capability as opposed to the $1,800 entry level DAS).  Includes timer, tachometer, speed, bluetooth Data Link, and DigiRace LE software.  Not sure of the sample rate.  Can not be built upon later.

3. Advantage Motorsports - Professional Data Logger for $595 includes control unit and four inputs, 30 samples per second sample rate, Windows based software, with track mapping and download cable, axle (MPH) sensor and magnet with wiring harness included.  Doesn't look like it has all the basic sensors, so this will cost more.  Can take additional sensor inputs. 

Realistically, I'm not planning to get into suspension measurements or tuning this year.  I'm looking for a low cost system that can give me vehicle speed, RPM, throttle posn, and one or two wheel speeds.  This way, I can play with sprockets and gearing to optimize corner exit speed and drive, and measure time from corner to corner using the software instead of additional beacons.

How is the Race Studio 2 software?  Easy to learn the basics (RPM, times, throttle, and temperature)?  A lot of riders are migrating to the GPS systems, but the pricing starts at $800 and more sensors are needed.  Thanks for the input so far.  Tiger

[123user]

I would not buy the Advantage Motorsports logger.  It does not have GPS and calculates track mapping from speed and accelerometer sensors.  This works great in a car, but on a bike that leans over, it won't work.  The other problem is that it only accepts 4 analog inputs, which is fine if all you want to see is TPS, RPM, speed, and acceleration... but down the line you'll be disappointed.

Ask yourself whether you need a display-type logger or just want to aquire data.  If you are fine with using the stock instrumentation, and don't want a new gauge setup, then you can look at the data only systems.  If you want the fancy display, I couldn't find anything below the $1500-1800 range that also has good expansion capability.

A sample rate of only 10Hz means that its only good for a lap timer (if that).  That's why I decided on the "race-technology" system.  Its got 5Hz GPS, 100Hz sampling, 3-axis accelerometer, and 8 analog inputs.  The basic logger costs $850, if you add the gauge display its $1400 (plus sensors of course).  It also has telemetry expansion capability and the software is capable of downloading to excel files (which would be good for developing FI maps).  Unfortunately, its a universal type system... meaning you get to figure out how to wire it, but they do seem to have good tech support and a decent online user BBS.

The main difference between the Race technology system and the others is the way it stores data.  All others save data to an internal drive that you can download to a computer.  The race technology systems uses CFC format, so no cable is necessary.  It also helps bring the cost down.

If you cannot afford $1500-$2500, personally, I'd save up for the next year and get something better.

[Over-ReActor]

I have a www.traqmate.com. It does everything. Check out their site. Will sell it for cheap.

[Tiger]

Thanks Jason, 123, and all. 
That Race Technology DL1 system looks quite powerful.  If I can use the current sensors already on the bike (from an old MyChron system), $850 buys all the features that I need for a few seasons.  It's got the GPS and accelerometers in the standard package.  Hopefully their software is easy to learn and flexible enough to pull the data and play with it.  Nobody has commented on the power or flexibility of their software.  Will probably call their technical help line and report back here on the specs and software soon.  Tiger

[123user]

 I haven't actually talked to anyone at race technology directly because they're in the UK.  I talked to someone at www.veracitydata.com to discuss the pro/con of the system vs. other.  They rep for Race Technology, MoTec, Aim, Pi research...etc so they have a pretty good idea what they're talking about.

You can see a demo of their software on the race technology website, and the full package is downloadable FOR FREE.  It seems pretty user friendly to me.  It does appear that you will have to "calibrate" the software to your analog inputs.  Different TPS's output different potentials.  Until recently, most Magnet Marelli had linear-ish TPS's, I have no idea what the Jap stuff is though.

Wheel rpm is a digital input, so just about any kind of on/off switch (inductive prox, hall effect... you get the picture) will work.  The logger has both high and low/level rpm input.  That means if you're ecu can output a direct signal to the tach you can just use that... or you can hook it up the old fashion way, to the neg. side of the coil.

My plan is to buy the DL1 and install in my van this winter to get used to working with the software.

Just a side note:  If you're lucky enough to be riding something made in Italy, germany, austria you should have no problem finding the right connectors.  These use Molex and Ampseal, commercially available connectors almost exclusively.  It does seem like the japs like to design their own connectors, so you may have to splice the ol' fashion way if you race a rice-burner.  This is where the expensive "plug n play" systems are nice.

[Over-ReActor]

I only had throttle position and rpm sensors hooked up on mine. Worked well. Built in features were things like track mapping, gps lap times, gas on, brake on, speed tracking, split times, etc. Accelerometers on a motorcycle actually suck. Skid zones are made for 4 wheel vehicles. Onces the bike leans it throws them off. I'll sell mine for $600.

[Tiger]

The Race Technology DL1 is looking like a powerful entry-level system.  They now offer a 20 hz upgrade on the GPS for $1100 for the data logger as opposed to $850 for the 5 hz GPS sampling rate.  100hz on the other 8 channels.  They have an office in the US with an experienced applications engineer available to answer technical questions.  Phone number's on their website.  The DL1 system hooks up with some bike's ECUs with a cable / CAN adapter for a few hundred more, and the system can then access any sensors on the bike that run to the bike's ECU.  Looks like a great deal for the price.  I've heard that motorcycle riders will put the case in a Ziploc to keep rain from getting into the housing (CF slot not sealed), but they report few failures from water getting inside.  It's easy to move from bike to bike to use the GPS and track mapping functions, and you can overlay laps from different riders to see differences in corner speeds, brake points, etc.  If your bike has FI, it has the throttle position sensor already.  Don't need to buy a lot of sensors unless you're looking at the suspension or traction control.