Data acquisition systems

[Tiger]

What are are the best low cost data acquisition systems that can take in at least four inputs (engine RPM, front wheel speed, rear wheel speed, lap times, etc.)?  Personally, I don't need a great user interface on the PC, just the data, though a low cost software program with a lot of features would be a bonus.  In addition, does anyone know what sensors are available for these inputs / readings from stock supply houses like Digikey instead of paying double or triple from the data logger manufacturers?
Thanks!
Tiger Anthony

[Super Dave]

Well, I'm using the Starlane GPS lap timer with track mapping.  No wheel speeds, but it gives track mapping with speed.  I haven't hooked mine up to my tach yet, but I'll be doing that for this season. 

It's a valuable lap timer because you don't need a beacon.  Additionally, you can add your own splits.  And since you're putting in all your splits, etc. it's consistent week after week.  So, you can look at and compare your data with some amount of consistency. 

We've used the MPH and track mapping data to reduce some of our need for track time in learning tracks.  Reduces our lying to ourselves since we have to deal with actual data that says whether we're letting off and for how long. 

[MegRyan]

Well, I'm using the Starlane GPS lap timer with track mapping.  No wheel speeds, but it gives track mapping with speed.  I haven't hooked mine up to my tach yet, but I'll be doing that for this season. 

It's a valuable lap timer because you don't need a beacon.  Additionally, you can add your own splits.  And since you're putting in all your splits, etc. it's consistent week after week.  So, you can look at and compare your data with some amount of consistency. 

We've used the MPH and track mapping data to reduce some of our need for track time in learning tracks.  Reduces our lying to ourselves since we have to deal with actual data that says whether we're letting off and for how long. 

I second this.... The Star Lane unit was a huge benefit for me this past season. I was able to actually sit out the Freezing cold practice at Brainerd this past season and go out in the Unlimited Superbike race and come a wheel short of beating Conrad to the line for the win.

All came down to the fact that the track mapping mentally helped me put together a fast lap before I even went out - Just based on the information from the last time I was there....

Good stuff - But If you are looking for actual wheel speed and some of the other little things that a real Data system has to offer - I think you will end up spending a bit more money...

Jason Farell can prolly comment on this a bit better - I think he was working with the AIM unit this past season....

[Scotty Ryan]

I gotta quit forgeting to sign myself into my account before I post stuff.... So that was my comment directly above here. I did mount the unit on Meghan's bike at a few tracks last season - Just to get some additional data.... She liked using the unit because you have a greater chance of actually getting a reading on your laptime - On a non-Gps unit - If the beacon doesn't trigger - Or is blocked - You won't get your last laptime.....

[Super Dave]

She liked using the unit because you have a greater chance of actually getting a reading on your laptime - On a non-Gps unit - If the beacon doesn't trigger - Or is blocked - You won't get your last laptime.....

Exactly.  I didn't recognize that the wind changed and left my gearing all wrong at Atlanta in '07.  Someone took their beacon home Sunday AM, and I had no times to recognize the mess.  I made no gearing changes because of a lack of recognition of my problem.  I lost time.

[Tiger]

The Starlane has some nice features, but I'll have to figure out how much their higher end units cost with the PC download feature.  The AIM unit runs $550 and has 4 inputs including RPM, speed, temperature and throttle position.  It looks like you can hook up a wheel speed sensor.  No GPS, from what I can see, so you probably need interval beacons to catch intervals.  Bike speed and engine RPM are the primary requirements, moreso than split times, though they all seem to have good interval capability.  With the RPM data, you can study your corner exit RPM for each gear and pick the gear (and the number of teeth on each gear in your gearbox) to optimize drive out of each corner exit.  On your torque and power curves, you typically want to come out of the corner near the peak torque or just before it (depending on the bike and it's curves, maybe 500 RPM before peak for a 4 cyl) to have max drive out of the corner and jam it (with enough headroom) until the bike is upright enough to shift up smoothly.  For twins the torque curve is flatter, so it's not as big of a concern, but I'm planning to study this a bit this next month.  Honda reps were talking about this in an issue of Red Rider a year or two ago.  They set up their factory AMA bikes with the sprockets and gearing to optimize drive out of each corner at each track.  The lap interval timing helps, especially when you can compare different riders to see where you can go faster.  This other method helps to refine the best gears and sprockets for each corner.  Fun stuff.  The wheel position sensors aren't as important, but they can tell you if you're rear is slipping too much and losing drive.  They seem to be more important for traction control, which isn't in the plan or budget.  Looking for an economical system.  The GPS systems have some great features.  Still hoping for more input from experienced users of other systems for comparison.  Thanks!

[racerhall]

i use the aim system but its not cheap but Jason Farrell is the one to ask questions

[123user]

If your interested in track mapping at all, consider the software.  You can have the best data logger, but without simple analysis software it'll be a pain to use.  There's quite a few outfits that use wheel rpm + accelerometers for tracking, but unless they have gyro's, it'll get screwed up with the back and forth leaning of a bike.  So, you really do want the GPS.  The better softwares will use speed and g-force to interpolate a track map.

I'm planning on buying the "race-technology" data logger with the "dash2" display.  The price is reasonable ($1400 for the combo).  It comes with internal 5 Hz GPS and 3 axis accelerometer.  It also has 8 analog inputs for whatever you want to use them for.  The thing that I really like about it is that it doesn't rely on internal memory.  All data is output to compact flash card.  It seems like the internal memory is what drives the cost up on these things.  With the CFC's  you can have separate cards for each track, or each rider, or whatever.  Plus, when you crash and destroy the display you don't lose your data.

However, I don't race a bike that is "supported" by AIM-sports.  If you're running a GSXR/CBR/R?/ZX6 the one from AIM might be pretty good because (as I understand it) it directly interfaces with the ECU, making it an easy install.

Of course, if you want the hottest of the hot, contact Magnet-Marelli, and for $10,000 they'll hook you up!

[Jeff]

Further, while the AIM system is $550, how much are the sensors?  Last I looked at them, some of the sensors were at or above the $400 mark! 

Data Acquisition in a reliable and usable manner is not going to be cheap...

[123user]

I believe that the AIM 'plug and play' is designed to take data directly from the ECU?, reducing the need for sensors?  Of course, if you want feedback from suspension or exhaust temp/o2, it'll be more.  There is a wide range in prices for linear position sensors, but 250-400 is in the ballpark.

But its not all bad, If your bike is FI, you already have TPS to splice into, and you're speed sensor (many are just inductive pick-ups) most likely can also serve dual purpose.

There are DA systems that will feed data over video... so that not only will you have track mapping, but you can see what's going on with the bike on video-  Some even have live telemetry... so that your pit crew can yell at you while you ride.

By the time I trick out my system I expect it to cost about $2500.  But I'll be making all my own brackets, and wiring it myself.  For about that amount I'll have RPM, TPS, fork, shock, O2, with spare inputs for monitoring airbox pressure or tire temps.

[Boober]

The AIM system with dash,GPS,wheel speed,angle,throttle pos,brake pressure,O2 sensor,gear position is about 5500.00    oh ya it measures g force too.  You are DEFINITELY gonna need some instruction from the aim boys too!

[J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp]

The AIM system with dash,GPS,wheel speed,angle,throttle pos,brake pressure,O2 sensor,gear position is about 5500.00    oh ya it measures g force too.  You are DEFINITELY gonna need some instruction from the aim boys too!

Boober has the price for our systems pretty close to on target.
We have just about every possible sensor you can put on a bike for racing.
I run all our systems on our race bikes. It takes some serious training to setup, run & understand what your looking at. I wouldn't buy an elaborate system unless you get some serious training or you will become overwhelmed with all the data. You will get lost. I spent a couple years studying the data and trying to figure out how to use the data.
It's not so much having a bunch of inputs to read and look at but how you can mix them together and make math channels with them to get more data by making math channels.

If you want a serious system, expect to pay someone to help you during a race weekend. There is constant checking all the sensors to make sure things don't go wrong with them.
You basically make your own wiring harness to wire it all up. One loose wire or bad sensor placement and the data is useless or can mislead you.

Expect to spend serious cash of about $5000 - $7000 for a really good system & the sensors you need. Plus if you can't wire it yourself you will need to pay to have someone install it. You also need spare sensors in canse of a component failure.

Once you have access to good data & someone to help you use it you will never want to race a bike without it. You feel naked without data.
I highly recommend it to anyone who can afford any system that can tell them information about what is going on with their bikes.

There is no better way to understand & learn to go faster than with data on your bike with a good coach. As the cost of the systems come down in the future I hope to see more racers with them on their bikes. Data helps you go faster through understanding what you and or your bike is doing. Data won't work for riders with big egos. Cause data doesn't lie!

You can get into a plug & play system for your bike for approximately $1800 without cost of any sensors.
For more info go to www.aimsports.com for more information. Or send me a PM on what you are looking for. I sell the systems and can assist you with installing & training.