What a shame....

Started by JBraun, January 29, 2009, 02:47:52 PM

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Super Dave

Surprised how much talk there is about this number thing.

Yoshimura, as an example, hit the AMA scene in 1971.  They have had a presence for some time.  In that time, they have had lots of riders.  Very good ones, some more successful than others.  The team owning the number is something that can be hung on a door, bike, etc.  It is an identity.  Yeah, the riders and drivers are stars, but the team is an enduring thing.  In bikes, it hasn't been so much as there hasn't been much for a outside sponsor recognize as something that was enduring. 

Hacking and #2.  There are very specific guidelines in the previous AMA rulebooks on who got what numbers 10 through 1.  You need to be a previous AMA champion to have one of those numbers.  Roberts often wore a 2.  Spencer just carried his 19 for a long time, when he kept his license current.  Lawson was 4.  Nixon=9.

As part of the "team identity", a Pair of Nines got on the bandwagon for the team identity in MotoST and used 9...Nixon and Springsteen, Springer being Nixon's GNC heir to the number. 

Honestly, it has needed an amount of professionalism for some time.  In some ways, access to the AMA program was too easy in some of the past.  It didn't help the program in attempting to sell it as an actual professional program.  It wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been.  Then again the rules were so skewed too, that was an additional problem.
Super Dave

Super Dave

Quote from: JBraun on January 29, 2009, 04:17:44 PM
I'm not buying that the class with the slower bikes and less talent is the "premier" class just because DMG says so. This whole thing is a mess, I hope it works out in the end...
The NASCAR Busch series that ran on Saturday to the NASCAR Winston Cup program on Sunday had a rules package that was more open than WC for a long time.  Lap times were faster.  It wasn't the premier class. 

WC had Sunday TV time, more TV contracts, more for driver contracts, more for team sponsorship contracts.  Don't forget the purse too.  It's really it's position in the market place as established by the sanctioning body and then how it is valued in the market place after that. 
Super Dave

JBraun

Dave,
You could also argue that Indy cars are a ton faster than stock cars, yet the money is in nascar. It's a totally different conversation with motorcycles.
I hate that there are still people who think the nascar business model works for motorcycle racing. It's not the same, and never will be.
The fastest riders on the fastest bikes will continue to be the draw, no matter when they line up during the weekend.
ASRA/CCS MW #29
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JBraun

and I smited you..... dick.
ASRA/CCS MW #29
Lithium Motorsports
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PIRELLI

Super Dave

Quote from: JBraun on January 29, 2009, 10:00:14 PM
Dave,
You could also argue that Indy cars are a ton faster than stock cars, yet the money is in nascar. It's a totally different conversation with motorcycles.
I hate that there are still people who think the nascar business model works for motorcycle racing. It's not the same, and never will be.
The fastest riders on the fastest bikes will continue to be the draw, no matter when they line up during the weekend.
Well, in 1996 and 1997, I raced a lot of AHRMA.  That's vintage bikes with vintage speeds.  Sometimes, that's pretty fast, but in relation to the AMA Pro road racing series it is slower.

During the 1996 and 1997 seasons, there were tracks that AHRMA out pulled the AMA, period.  65,000 people for the AHRMA event at Mid-Ohio.  Less the next weekend for the AMA Pro event.

There are a lot of reasons for a draw. 

Yeah, Indy cars are faster than stock cars in their restricted form, but the marketing folks that run NASCAR don't run Indy car.  For years, Indy car had sponsorships and PR, etc. that came exclusively from certain teams...just like AMA Superbike where Honda America sponsors one team and supports some events.  Suzuki sponsors one team and some events.  Rules were "manufactured" for the exclusive use of those teams, and their special riders, that gave them an advantage and a certainty of some kind of result.  Again, similar. 

I agree two wheels, four wheels are different, but there's stuff behind the scenes that doesn't change the end results of both.


Back years ago when CCE bought CCS and FUSA, they developed the first big play on their new program.  They even paid for TV time on CBS for the FUSA race.  With the very specific dyno format of FUSA and a great commitment from all the teams, there was an excellent platform for teams and their riders to have a real shot at the win.  The TV ratings were more substantial than the Indy Car race going on that weekend. 

What is the NASCAR business model anyway?  Reasonable, attainable rules.  Proper purse and team commitments.  AMA had about 30 years of Superbike where they didn't get much done.  You couldn't build a bike for $250k and expect a reasonable result.  You wouldn't have access to the tires that the "top" teams had, nor would you have the special parts.  I would expect that given $150k one might be able to run an entire program in the new Daytona Superbike Series, have a reasonable expectation to get around $36k back in purse money with a new but quick rider.  Where's the problem? 
Super Dave

JBraun

Somthing needed to be done with the series, absolutely. I'm all for change, I just think there's a lot of egos with a lot of wild ideas, and I don't think it's gonna work out. The Superbikes are the fastest, the hardest to ride and most fun to watch. That's your premier class.
I've been disgusted for some time about the way the AMA has done their business. And I hope that along with the new rules comes accountability and enforcement. I'm still not convinced that Dunlop will provide a "control" tire, but that's another conversation.
I think too much was made of Yoshimura's dominance over the last few years. I doubt the results would have been much different if those two guys were on Hondas.
What if Mladin runs the table this season? What if he wins every race by 10 seconds?
ASRA/CCS MW #29
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Ducati23

No matter how any of us feel about it, the new series with new rules is about to take place. It could end up better than what the AMA did. Lets hope for the best and give them a chance to to well.
CCS/ASRA #23
GP SuperTwins Champion 2007 2008
Ducati 848

vnvbandit

Quote from: Ducati23 on January 30, 2009, 11:01:48 AM
No matter how any of us feel about it, the new series with new rules is about to take place. It could end up better than what the AMA did. Lets hope for the best and give them a chance to to well.

exactly!
now about the small grids............................................. as of today 25  total!
http://admin.amaproracing.com/assets/D200-EntryList.pdf
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe a privateer will win?  :cheers:
~Brian
CCS FL 68
ASRA 68
Thanks
Nancy&Patrick

skipper08

Quote from: Hank Reardon on January 29, 2009, 06:17:49 PM
Um, not that I know of.  Nicky has used 69.  Rossi 46, but he has had the option to run 1.  Both have been on different teams, for example.  Same goes for other riders in the FIM series. 

As for other programs...

They all have independent practice, qualifying, and racing.  ASRA allows their number one plate holders in each class to carry their 1.

1st thing - learn how to read. (not trying to offend you or anything)

2nd - i said if you hold any number from 1-10 you will decided if you want to use it or not, now like they said on the previous post YAMAHA was reserving #2, 4, 6 with out really earning them. if im not wrong no where in the world you get to reserve those numbers as for what i know they are earned, YOU CHOOSE TO USE IT OR NOT ;)
you get to reserve any number if and ONLY IF you are in the top 10 and that is bc if next year you dont get in the top 10 at least you still have your original number available other than that sorry.

then as far as ASRA, they are the only one, all the other club racing LIKE I SAID ( CCS which is the one i stated ) does not do it like that and i think the number plate holds no meaning, bc is an overall on who runs more races.

PEOPLE THAT IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION. if you think other wise im entitle to think like this sorry, if i get anyone mad by saying that.
Gus Sanchez
CCS EX #300 & ASRA #300

skipper08

Quote from: vnvbandit on January 30, 2009, 11:10:57 AM
exactly!
now about the small grids............................................. as of today 25  total!
http://admin.amaproracing.com/assets/D200-EntryList.pdf
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe a privateer will win?  :cheers:

that cant be the total entries for AMA
Gus Sanchez
CCS EX #300 & ASRA #300

JBraun

You're incorrect here.
The top ten number thing is pretty exclusive to club racing. In the AMA, if you are a past champion you have the right to reserve a single digit number, but it has nothing to do with your championship position in that class.
Back in the day GP riders used to run the number of races they won the previous year as thier competition number. Pedrosa brought that back last year.
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Lithium Motorsports
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skipper08

Quote from: JBraun on January 30, 2009, 12:22:30 PM
You're incorrect here.
The top ten number thing is pretty exclusive to club racing. In the AMA, if you are a past champion you have the right to reserve a single digit number, but it has nothing to do with your championship position in that class.
Back in the day GP riders used to run the number of races they won the previous year as thier competition number. Pedrosa brought that back last year.


well i dont know if anything after # 3 works like that i figured that it was giving. upto #10 of course.
Gus Sanchez
CCS EX #300 & ASRA #300