What a shame....

[JBraun]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jan/090129-2.htm

If it's true, I'm very sorry for Hacker. The guy is a freak and deserves to be on a superbike. It's like asking Kevin Windham to ride the lites class.

Nothing like getting your ride and your number ripped in the same year.

[Rick Johnson 29]

Man thats sucks.He was running up front almost every race last year.What the hell is wrong with Kawi? Also trying to pull out of Moto GP. Sounds like a sinking ship as far as racing is concerned.Glad I own Yamaha's!

[Super Dave]

Daytona Superbike is the AMA's new premier class.  He said he wanted to ride, so I was told on Sunday.  Didn't care whether it was a 600 or a 1000.  Purse pays better too.  I don't see where this is a problem.  He has a responsibility to sign his own contracts.

[vnvbandit]

 As per the DMG rule book, teams now reserve numbers for their bikes and Yamaha has reserved two, four and six.

Just like NASCAR.......the numbers are the owners numbers NOT the rider! 

[JBraun]

If he didn't care what he rides, he'd have stayed with Yamaha in 07 and defended his two #1 plates. I would guess Hacker signed the deal because he'd rather ride a 600 than stay home. At least he has a job I guess.

I'm not buying that the class with the slower bikes and less talent is the "premier" class just because DMG says so. This whole thing is a mess, I hope it works out in the end...

[skipper08]

that reserve shit rule is gay, no where in the world you can do that if you have the # from 1-10 is because you came in that possition on the previous year and you are entitle to use it or not but no one else can.

THATS IT, there is no buts or what or nothing, reserve my azz, they should ban them LOL

[Garywc]

that reserve shit rule is gay, no where in the world you can do that if you have the # from 1-10 is because you came in that possition on the previous year and you are entitle to use it or not but no one else can.

THATS IT, there is no buts or what or nothing, reserve my azz, they should ban them LOL

but then why would hacking have the #2 plate when did he earn that?

[benprobst]

that reserve shit rule is gay, no where in the world you can do that if you have the # from 1-10 is because you came in that possition on the previous year and you are entitle to use it or not but no one else can.

THATS IT, there is no buts or what or nothing, reserve my azz, they should ban them LOL

LOL, by anywhere in the world do you mean CCS? Cause its not the case in the majority of American club and pro racing, nor the case in the majority of world wide and euro only series.

[skipper08]

LOL, by anywhere in the world do you mean CCS? Cause its not the case in the majority of American club and pro racing, nor the case in the majority of world wide and euro only series.

actually FIM runs it like that, that is europe and everything over that side of the country and south america.

when you say what you said, are you telling me that anyone other than ben spies could have used the #1 bc they reserved it...............ok thought so.

CCS run their number stats all bad in my opinion, if you are the champion in one class you should be able to run the number 1 in the races of that class, thats how it is in AMA, MOTOGP, WSBK and in all the other organizations out side the US.

i run 3 classes if im the champion in 1 of the 3 is my decision on which number i want to run in that class if #1 or my #300, on the other classes i use the number i can get if is 300 in both of them then that would be great.

over all #1 does not mean anything bc thats for ppl that run with 600 most of the time or maybe have a 600 and 1000. its like the more races you do and get up there, for sure you will get the #1 plate. in what world does that make you the #1, only here in the US.

PS: the overall #1 amateur in CCS for florida in 2008 was only able to get around me when i would crash, so is he really the #1 or what??? and he is 1700 points ahead of me.

[skipper08]

but then why would hacking have the #2 plate when did he earn that?

i said RESERVING the numbers not that hacking was not using #2

#2 is matt

[Cowboy 6]

I'm not buying that the class with the slower bikes and less talent is the "premier" class just because DMG says so.

From what I hear, NASCAR is entertainment "just because DMG says so".... No other reason is forthcoming at this point.

[Super Dave]

actually FIM runs it like that

Um, not that I know of.  Nicky has used 69.  Rossi 46, but he has had the option to run 1.  Both have been on different teams, for example.  Same goes for other riders in the FIM series. 

As for other programs...

They all have independent practice, qualifying, and racing.  ASRA allows their number one plate holders in each class to carry their 1.

[Super Dave]

Surprised how much talk there is about this number thing.

Yoshimura, as an example, hit the AMA scene in 1971.  They have had a presence for some time.  In that time, they have had lots of riders.  Very good ones, some more successful than others.  The team owning the number is something that can be hung on a door, bike, etc.  It is an identity.  Yeah, the riders and drivers are stars, but the team is an enduring thing.  In bikes, it hasn't been so much as there hasn't been much for a outside sponsor recognize as something that was enduring. 

Hacking and #2.  There are very specific guidelines in the previous AMA rulebooks on who got what numbers 10 through 1.  You need to be a previous AMA champion to have one of those numbers.  Roberts often wore a 2.  Spencer just carried his 19 for a long time, when he kept his license current.  Lawson was 4.  Nixon=9.

As part of the "team identity", a Pair of Nines got on the bandwagon for the team identity in MotoST and used 9...Nixon and Springsteen, Springer being Nixon's GNC heir to the number. 

Honestly, it has needed an amount of professionalism for some time.  In some ways, access to the AMA program was too easy in some of the past.  It didn't help the program in attempting to sell it as an actual professional program.  It wasn't taken as seriously as it should have been.  Then again the rules were so skewed too, that was an additional problem.

[Super Dave]

I'm not buying that the class with the slower bikes and less talent is the "premier" class just because DMG says so. This whole thing is a mess, I hope it works out in the end...

The NASCAR Busch series that ran on Saturday to the NASCAR Winston Cup program on Sunday had a rules package that was more open than WC for a long time.  Lap times were faster.  It wasn't the premier class. 

WC had Sunday TV time, more TV contracts, more for driver contracts, more for team sponsorship contracts.  Don't forget the purse too.  It's really it's position in the market place as established by the sanctioning body and then how it is valued in the market place after that. 

[JBraun]

Dave,
You could also argue that Indy cars are a ton faster than stock cars, yet the money is in nascar. It's a totally different conversation with motorcycles.
I hate that there are still people who think the nascar business model works for motorcycle racing. It's not the same, and never will be.
The fastest riders on the fastest bikes will continue to be the draw, no matter when they line up during the weekend.

[JBraun]

and I smited you..... dick.

[Super Dave]

Dave,
You could also argue that Indy cars are a ton faster than stock cars, yet the money is in nascar. It's a totally different conversation with motorcycles.
I hate that there are still people who think the nascar business model works for motorcycle racing. It's not the same, and never will be.
The fastest riders on the fastest bikes will continue to be the draw, no matter when they line up during the weekend.

Well, in 1996 and 1997, I raced a lot of AHRMA.  That's vintage bikes with vintage speeds.  Sometimes, that's pretty fast, but in relation to the AMA Pro road racing series it is slower.

During the 1996 and 1997 seasons, there were tracks that AHRMA out pulled the AMA, period.  65,000 people for the AHRMA event at Mid-Ohio.  Less the next weekend for the AMA Pro event.

There are a lot of reasons for a draw. 

Yeah, Indy cars are faster than stock cars in their restricted form, but the marketing folks that run NASCAR don't run Indy car.  For years, Indy car had sponsorships and PR, etc. that came exclusively from certain teams...just like AMA Superbike where Honda America sponsors one team and supports some events.  Suzuki sponsors one team and some events.  Rules were "manufactured" for the exclusive use of those teams, and their special riders, that gave them an advantage and a certainty of some kind of result.  Again, similar. 

I agree two wheels, four wheels are different, but there's stuff behind the scenes that doesn't change the end results of both.


Back years ago when CCE bought CCS and FUSA, they developed the first big play on their new program.  They even paid for TV time on CBS for the FUSA race.  With the very specific dyno format of FUSA and a great commitment from all the teams, there was an excellent platform for teams and their riders to have a real shot at the win.  The TV ratings were more substantial than the Indy Car race going on that weekend. 

What is the NASCAR business model anyway?  Reasonable, attainable rules.  Proper purse and team commitments.  AMA had about 30 years of Superbike where they didn't get much done.  You couldn't build a bike for $250k and expect a reasonable result.  You wouldn't have access to the tires that the "top" teams had, nor would you have the special parts.  I would expect that given $150k one might be able to run an entire program in the new Daytona Superbike Series, have a reasonable expectation to get around $36k back in purse money with a new but quick rider.  Where's the problem? 

[JBraun]

Somthing needed to be done with the series, absolutely. I'm all for change, I just think there's a lot of egos with a lot of wild ideas, and I don't think it's gonna work out. The Superbikes are the fastest, the hardest to ride and most fun to watch. That's your premier class.
I've been disgusted for some time about the way the AMA has done their business. And I hope that along with the new rules comes accountability and enforcement. I'm still not convinced that Dunlop will provide a "control" tire, but that's another conversation.
I think too much was made of Yoshimura's dominance over the last few years. I doubt the results would have been much different if those two guys were on Hondas.
What if Mladin runs the table this season? What if he wins every race by 10 seconds?

[Ducati23]

No matter how any of us feel about it, the new series with new rules is about to take place. It could end up better than what the AMA did. Lets hope for the best and give them a chance to to well.

[vnvbandit]

No matter how any of us feel about it, the new series with new rules is about to take place. It could end up better than what the AMA did. Lets hope for the best and give them a chance to to well.

exactly!
now about the small grids............................................. as of today 25  total!
http://admin.amaproracing.com/assets/D200-EntryList.pdf
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe a privateer will win? 

[skipper08]

Um, not that I know of.  Nicky has used 69.  Rossi 46, but he has had the option to run 1.  Both have been on different teams, for example.  Same goes for other riders in the FIM series. 

As for other programs...

They all have independent practice, qualifying, and racing.  ASRA allows their number one plate holders in each class to carry their 1.

1st thing - learn how to read. (not trying to offend you or anything)

2nd - i said if you hold any number from 1-10 you will decided if you want to use it or not, now like they said on the previous post YAMAHA was reserving #2, 4, 6 with out really earning them. if im not wrong no where in the world you get to reserve those numbers as for what i know they are earned, YOU CHOOSE TO USE IT OR NOT ;)
you get to reserve any number if and ONLY IF you are in the top 10 and that is bc if next year you dont get in the top 10 at least you still have your original number available other than that sorry.

then as far as ASRA, they are the only one, all the other club racing LIKE I SAID ( CCS which is the one i stated ) does not do it like that and i think the number plate holds no meaning, bc is an overall on who runs more races.

PEOPLE THAT IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION. if you think other wise im entitle to think like this sorry, if i get anyone mad by saying that.

[skipper08]

exactly!
now about the small grids............................................. as of today 25  total!
http://admin.amaproracing.com/assets/D200-EntryList.pdf
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe a privateer will win? 

that cant be the total entries for AMA

[JBraun]

You're incorrect here.
The top ten number thing is pretty exclusive to club racing. In the AMA, if you are a past champion you have the right to reserve a single digit number, but it has nothing to do with your championship position in that class.
Back in the day GP riders used to run the number of races they won the previous year as thier competition number. Pedrosa brought that back last year.

[skipper08]

You're incorrect here.
The top ten number thing is pretty exclusive to club racing. In the AMA, if you are a past champion you have the right to reserve a single digit number, but it has nothing to do with your championship position in that class.
Back in the day GP riders used to run the number of races they won the previous year as thier competition number. Pedrosa brought that back last year.

well i dont know if anything after # 3 works like that i figured that it was giving. upto #10 of course.

[Rick Johnson 29]

Hopefully there will be some closer racing with all the changes.I can't wait to see how Hayes does on the new R1 and Young on the GSXR 1000.

[Super Dave]

The Superbikes are the fastest, the hardest to ride and most fun to watch. That's your premier class.

Was, but isn't so much all the time.  At Laguna, all the MotoGP crew went out to watch all the Supersport stuff because the bikes would actually move around and stuff vs the inline stuff of AMA superbike factory stuff and MotoGP ECM/controls.

What if Mladin runs the table this season? What if he wins every race by 10 seconds?

He didn't last year all the time.  If he does this year, I'd say that he'd be recognize as a very, very good rider.  But they are racing American Superbike or what ever.  He'll have some issues with the chassis vs the big forks and all that he's used to using.

[Super Dave]

1st thing - learn how to read. (not trying to offend you or anything)

Damn you!  LOL!

2nd - i said if you hold any number from 1-10 you will decided if you want to use it or not, now like they said on the previous post YAMAHA was reserving #2, 4, 6 with out really earning them...

In NASCAR, as an example, those are just numbers.  They don't represent a position.  Was Yamaha one of the first to commit to the series as a US based distributor?  I would think they got first shot at deciding what numbers to us.  Maybe Jordan was first, but, again, they probably wanted 23. 

Regardless, it's in the hands of AMA Pro Racing. 

[JBraun]

More fodder for the "premier class" discussion: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jan/080130a.htm

[benprobst]

well i dont know if anything after # 3 works like that i figured that it was giving. upto #10 of course.

Funny how you went from telling one of the most experienced guys in the paddock to learn how to read to this.


The fact is youre wrong, im sure there is another series here in the states and maybe one or two in europe, but for the most part the only place where the top 10 rule is in effect is CCS overall standings(in the states).

[Super Dave]

and I smited you..... dick.

Who? 

Then why?

[tstruyk]

Who? 

Then why?

you... uuummm cuz you are!   

[backMARKr]

you... uuummm cuz you are!   

Why does everything have to be an argument with you?

[LMsports]

Timmay hides in the shadows and pokes lions with sticks.

[JBraun]

Who? 

Then why?

I guess I should mix in a smiley once in a while...

[Super Dave]

 

[Graham]

then as far as ASRA, they are the only one, all the other club racing LIKE I SAID ( CCS which is the one i stated ) does not do it like that and i think the number plate holds no meaning, bc is an overall on who runs more races.




Interesting,I thought the hole point was to win the overall plate,The Championship.I dont think its as simple as just running a bunch of races.I found it to be a real challenge.Try racing 8 to 10 races on sunday and push 100% and see where you r at the end of the year.There will always be 4 or 5 riders going for the overall plate.Running 3 races in a row in the middle of summer in florida is difficult.Then add in the performance index to make it even harder.All CCS would have to do is have selective races that went towards the over all plate.But there will always be sombody stepping up to the plate to win it,so you have to race with them if you want to win it to,so.....the most points win.I agree its bs that someone can run a bunch of races and win it( it still takes a very good rider to win it)but those r the rules,and why theres a performance index attached only to the over all points and not class points.Just like the class championship you can be the fastest but if you dont finish your races you wont win,being consitant  wins champioships at all levels of racing.I think if you tried to win the overall plate and won it you would think differently,like i said its not easy even for the fastest guy.I guess i just needed to say somthing about the overall plate not having any meaning,dont knock it if you havent tried it!!!!!!!!!!!!!And it gives none talented riders like myself somthing to win.

[Graham]

I will also point out 1 meaningless point about the overall plate, you will buy your tires this season and i wont.no pun intended.sorry for the thread jack, i guess that statement rubbed me the wrong way.

[skipper08]

Funny how you went from telling one of the most experienced guys in the paddock to learn how to read to this.


The fact is youre wrong, im sure there is another series here in the states and maybe one or two in europe, but for the most part the only place where the top 10 rule is in effect is CCS overall standings(in the states).

i did not say it being an ASS or something but he was arguing certain things that i had in that post, maybe he read half way and posted. im not trying to battle with no one here.
maybe you are right that there is an organization in europe that does it like CCS but i have not heard from it in any other forum that im active on.

[tstruyk]

Why does everything have to be an argument with you?

are you a dick to everyone?

[skipper08]

then as far as ASRA, they are the only one, all the other club racing LIKE I SAID ( CCS which is the one i stated ) does not do it like that and i think the number plate holds no meaning, bc is an overall on who runs more races.

Interesting,I thought the hole point was to win the overall plate,The Championship.I dont think its as simple as just running a bunch of races.I found it to be a real challenge.Try racing 8 to 10 races on sunday and push 100% and see where you r at the end of the year.There will always be 4 or 5 riders going for the overall plate.Running 3 races in a row in the middle of summer in florida is difficult.Then add in the performance index to make it even harder.All CCS would have to do is have selective races that went towards the over all plate.But there will always be sombody stepping up to the plate to win it,so you have to race with them if you want to win it to,so.....the most points win.I agree its bs that someone can run a bunch of races and win it( it still takes a very good rider to win it)but those r the rules,and why theres a performance index attached only to the over all points and not class points.Just like the class championship you can be the fastest but if you dont finish your races you wont win,being consitant  wins champioships at all levels of racing.I think if you tried to win the overall plate and won it you would think differently,like i said its not easy even for the fastest guy.I guess i just needed to say somthing about the overall plate not having any meaning,dont knock it if you havent tried it!!!!!!!!!!!!!And it gives none talented riders like myself somthing to win.

graham, congrats in your win and by no mean my comments were to put down any rider that goes for the #1 plate. i agree with you that is has to be hard to do 8-10 races a race weekend, but thats not what the argument was about. the argument is that not everyone has the same opportunity like the guys doing 600 classes, that was it.
im happy that you are not paying for tires, maybe ill get to that point one day, but until that day i will bust my ass going faster and faster.

see you at homestead in 6 day, ill be running white plates finally ;-)

[Graham]

ITs cool, i only posted cause it just sounded that way.Florida region is very tough lots of fast guys and you have to race all on sunday.And the other regions you race sat & sun.But the  EX 1000 class this year i would think will be a little easier to run up front cause there will be about 5 or 6 guys that where really fast will be gone so good luck to you, and give them hell!!!!

[Rick Johnson 29]

All races on Sunday in the Fla. heat would be tough on anyone.
I grew up there and spent many days doing motorcross in S.Fla
it isn't easy.Takes some tough physical training to be able to do
either in the humid heat.Good luck this year!

[d-wire]

Interesting,I thought the hole point was to win the overall plate,The Championship.I dont think its as simple as just running a bunch of races.I found it to be a real challenge.Try racing 8 to 10 races on sunday and push 100% and see where you r at the end of the year.There will always be 4 or 5 riders going for the overall plate.Running 3 races in a row in the middle of summer in florida is difficult.Then add in the performance index to make it even harder.All CCS would have to do is have selective races that went towards the over all plate.

...for some it is the "hole point".   Some care more about race wins, some just want to be the fastest guy on a given sunday, some want the fastest lap, some want to be the most handsome like me.

I think you would agree that even in the competitive region of FL there are only 4 or 5 guys that have a shot at the overal #1.  Gus has a point about having to be on a 600 to win it.  You know I've been on both side of this debate.  I've won the #1 plate although it wasn't my goal.....and I've ridden the 1000 with only 4 classes you can run. Id like to see CCS count the top 4 or 5 results of a given racer towards the overal. 

SO, if you got 3 1st places.....2 seconds and a fifth and 2 7th place finishes.  Your bottom finishes would get thrown out and you'd get credit for the 3 first places and a second towards the overal. That would give a 1000 rider a chance at the overal #1 plate. The 600 guys would still have an advantage being able to throw out there bad races towards the overal, but a dominant 1000 rider could potentially win it.
Instead of 4 or 5 guys in the hunt, you'd have 12-15 in the hunt and that would make it mean more to me. Just my .$02 (but that doesn't sell race entries, does it?)

By the way Graham, nothin nastier than runnin races 15,16,17, and 19 at the end of a hot summer day in FL at JGP.....whewy. hahahaha

I have respect for the 1000 guys cause they are hard to ride fast and the fast 600 guys....cause runnin that many races is tough. Both are neat, just different

[RCR_531]

http://www.kawasaki.com/NewsEvents/NewsDetail.aspx?id=832   Back on track

[Johnny B]

but then why would hacking have the #2 plate when did he earn that?

Actually the irony in this was that some time back, the Kinkos Kawasaki team seemed to have permanent possession of the #2 in Super Sport. Several riders, including Thomas Stevens, wore the #2 plate when they rode for Kinkos. I believe Jamie was the last one who rode for them, and when he moved on after the disbanding of the team, he took the number with him. When the AMA standardized the numbers to be the same in all four classes, Jamie got #2 in Superbike.