Weather

[Dawn]

I certainly hope the weather improves for the first weekend at BHF.   :-/

http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USLocalStd.asp?loc=usilct22078&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=Forecasts&product=Forecast&prodnav=none&pid=none

Dawn   :)

[OmniGLH]

I'm sure it will change, it's still a little over a week out.  Granted, it may change for the worse... but time will tell.

All I do know is that if it stays low 40s and rain/snow mix, I'm probably bailing on everything that weekend.  No sense in wasting time, money, and vacation days just to wad my bike up in the freezing rain.  I want the points... but not THAT badly.

[Dawn]

 I want the points... but not THAT badly.

Just remember...  It is a double point weekend!  

Oh oh wait....  Nah...  don't worry about the points.  It will be too cold.  Anyone in LW should stay home.  No need to put your bike at risk.

Dawn   ;D

[sdiver68]

They taught us in Aviation that anything forecast more than 4 days in advance has less than a 50% chance of accuracy..in other words a pure guess has better odds.

However, if the 1-2 day forecasts are that bad...I may skip as well.  I can deal with cold, I can deal with wet...but both at the same time just sucks.

I wondered out loud when they released the schedule why CCS doesn't start the GP season in Hallett...

http://www.weather.com/weather/local/USOK0537?lswe=Tulsa&lswa=WeatherLocalUndeclared&whatprefs=

Hey, maybe I'm on to something.  Anyone want to go to WERA Hallet with me if the BHF forecast stays that way?

[Thingy]

I am going to Hallett in late May instead of MAM.  I love that track and am pretty disappointed that they removed it from the Great Plains schedule just because it conflicted with the Midwest schedule.  I guess that they are trying to insure that all three regions (GP, GL, And MW) go to all three region's races.   >:(  Oh well.

And hey, they are going to have a 5 hour endurance race there in May.  I have done it the last two years and it is a blast!  47 teams entered last year. :)

[Speedballer347]

...Anyone want to go to WERA Hallet with me if the BHF forecast stays that way?

I'm going the BHF's.  
Double points, baby...your gonna make this too easy for me ;D ..... ;)

[Nate R]

Well, that's bittersweet. I was looking forward to some lean angle, and getting some fast laps in  and such, but I LOVE riding in the rain, so racing in the rain should be fun, too, even though it'll be cold. Ah well, It'll mean I might have a good chance at contigency. :)


BTW, IF it IS raining all the time, can I expect a set of rain tires to last friday, as well as 1 gt and 3 sprints, and then be usable on another weekend as long as its WET and not damp?

[EX#996]

BTW, IF it IS raining all the time, can I expect a set of rain tires to last friday, as well as 1 gt and 3 sprints, and then be usable on another weekend as long as its WET and not damp?

Remember Nate....

... the slower you go - the longer your tires will last.   ;D

To be honest, I don't know the answer to your question.  If a dry line appears during the race and you choose to use it, you could fry a set of rains in a sprint race.

Dawn   :)

[Nate R]

Well, I was told the 207 rear would be an OK intermediate rain tire, but the 208 front, I dunno. But, if there's a damp track with a dry line, i wouldnt run full rains. I can't afford to fry a set of full rains on one sprint race.

[Valexaus]

Fry a set of rains? very difficult to do unless you go out in complete dry conditions. I ran full rains in damp to almost dry conditions at RA last season, kept on a damp line, by the last lap thru the carousel it was loose but nothing to worry about . The right side of the tire shredded a bit, I talked to Andy Wells (dunlop guy) and he said he's never seen a worn out rain tire.  I'd be more concerned about keeping it on 2 wheels, also on the SV check your front plug cap that its not loose fitting. Water will get in there and you'll be down to 1 cyclinder. I found out the hard way and lost a race because of that.

[Nate R]

The forecast looks better already!  :D

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Remember Nate....

... the slower you go - the longer your tires will last.   ;D

How true that is.  ;D ;D I only went through 2 sets of tires all year in 2001 on my F2.  ;D  KBOlsen only goes through 1 set in 2 years :o ;D (running for cover under the trailer ;D ;D ;D)

[KBOlsen]

Rob, rob, rob... Better hope that trailer is comfy and well-supplied with food/water, cuz you'll be spending a LOT of time in it!!!! ;D ;D ;D

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     The Midwest season use to begin by having its' first event at Heartland Park in Topeka Kansas where there was at least a better chance of good weather. That event was usually at the end of March, 2 or 3 weeks before the usual 1st BHF event. Having that event at that time could help to add more total events per season, but did nothing to help the still early event a BHF. Since adding more events is not an issue as of late, timing of the events would seem more of an issue. I think that remarks such as those above about not attending an event because of cold/wet weather would be incentive enough to make adjustments to the schedule in the future to help increase overall attendence of the racers.
     Common sense would lead me to believe that, if possible, you would want to have your beginning and ending events to the South and the events during the summer more to the North to take best advantage of the weather in those areas at that time of the year. I have been at BHF (early April '97) where it was snowing on Saturday to the point of not being able to race, then having to run the entire events worth of races on Sunday (in a shortened form) when it was 40* outside and we had 4 inches of snow on the grass (I remember that event well because I ran off the track at 80+ mph and ended up going down because of the snow on the grass, a crash that wouldn't have happened had the snow not been there). To the opposite extreme was the MAM event last year in the hottest part of the summer (100*) in a area of the country traditionally hot at that time of the year.
     Though scheduling can be an issue at some tracks at certain times of the year, adjusting their timing could be economically beneficial to CCS thru higher turn-outs. Tracks like Heartland Park, MAM, Gateway, and Putnam Park would be best used in the cold and warm weather due to their more Southern location. Tracks like Gratten, Gingerman, BHF, Road America, and Brainerd would be better used in the warm/hot weather due to their more Northern location. Starting the season by having an event at a 'Southern' track like Heartland Park or MAM (locations which statistically have decent weather earlier in the year) on the last weekend of March or first weekend of April would probably see good weather (temperature wise). Following this by an event at one of the other 'Southern' tracks 2 or 3 weeks later would probably see good racer turn-out (due to the weather, not just the double points benefit).

[spyderchick]

Last year the conditions at Gateway (1st midwest race)were abysmal, and there was alot of crashing. Common sense or no common sense, mother nature always has the last say.  

[Dawn]

Stop whining...  

Bring out your woolies....

Let's race!!!!!!

Dawn   :)

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Last year the conditions at Gateway (1st midwest race)were abysmal, and there was alot of crashing. Common sense or no common sense, mother nature always has the last say.  

     The race you spoke of at Gateway last year was on March 23-24, 2-3 weeks before races should be held at that location, based on it's average weather at that time of the year.

Stop whining...  
 
Bring out your woolies....
 
Let's race!!!!!!
 
Dawn  

     I have raced in extremes of weather at numerous tracks and actually do quite well in the adverse conditions. But my suggestions were along the lines of why make things harder than they have to be? If it's just a matter of scheduling differently I personally would rather race when it's above 50*. I've come in from practice sessions before where it was so cold that I could barely use my fingers anymore (wearing only my leather race gloves) and had almost crashed due to hardly being able to pull the brake lever anymore. Trying to race a motorcycle with your leather gloves AND winter gloves on is not very safe due to not being able to grip the handlebars very well and is certainly not very enjoyable. After all isn't this level of racing for enjoyment? Was being at Gateway during that cold/wet weekend very enjoyable? If scheduling could help to improve that aspect very easily in the future, wouldn't you want that?.
     I am not whining, but instead simply offering an easy way to help reduce the amount of races that have to be run in extreme weather conditions.

[Dawn]

Mike:

No matter the location in the Midwest - there is no guarantee the weather will be good for the first race of the season.  Even in May, we can have snow (or perhaps that is just Wisconsin).

Call me selfish, but I am happy the first race is at BHF.  Being from WI, we don't travel to the southern most tracks in the race schedule because it is just too far.

I started this thread purely for the entertainment purpose.  I'm sorry that was missed.

Dawn   :)

[bweber]

This is a photo taken on Friday evening of the first Blackhawk race in 2000.  I believe it was April 7, 2000 when 6" of snow was dumped on Rockton, IL!  We could not start practicing until noon on Saturday because we were too busy clearing the snow and ice off the racetrack!
Anyone have a good story about that weekend.  I think by Sunday, all the snow was gone and the temp was in the mid 50's.

[spyderchick]

       I've come in from practice sessions before where it was so cold that I could barely use my fingers anymore (wearing only my leather race gloves) and had almost crashed due to hardly being able to pull the brake lever anymore.     

I am not whining, but instead simply offering an easy way to help reduce the amount of races that have to be run in extreme weather conditions.

Seriously, to the first part, wear latex or vinyl gloves underneath your race gloves. Holds in heat and prevents evaporation of sweat and such,  thus reducing loss of heat. You will still be cold and uncomfortable, but not in danger of frost bite.

To the second part, we have to compete for limited seasonal track time on weekends with other racing organizations and sanctioning bodies. Scheduling has got to be a headache for all racing organizations looking to book their events. The weather in the midwest is a variable factor from year to year. I've been to the first race and it's been 60 degrees, and other years there has been snow. It's the price we pay for living and playing in a beautiful part of the country.

One of the reasons for double points is to increase attandance, no matter the conditions. Hey we're tough, we race, no matter the weather.  :D

[chris_chops]

Stop whining...  

Bring out your woolies....

Let's race!!!!!!

Dawn   :)

People can whine all they want, I want them to stop WINNING! :o

[Steviebee]

Im going to do all you guys who hate the rain a big favor.  

I always suffer from Murphy's law.  So if you all sell me your rain gear cheap, ill be all set to race in the rain.

AND THEN IT WONT RAIN A DROP !!!

of course if i dont get rain gear, rain tires, it will pour!   thats just my luck.

Ya see im responsible for all the snow we've gotten (Indy, IN) this year, its because i decided i wasnt going to snowboard this year to save money for raceing.   SO IT SNOWS A BUNCH !!!..


Last year i decide to buy a snowboard, and it barley snows. !!!


So send me you rain gear ir you want it to be nice a sunny !!!


Well at least im trying to get a little kerosene heater, so you can plan on it being warm.  Unless i dont get it, then it will be freezing !!


8 more days.   man i better go finish my bike !!!

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Seriously, to the first part, wear latex or vinyl gloves underneath your race gloves. Holds in heat and prevents evaporation of sweat and such,  thus reducing loss of heat. You will still be cold and uncomfortable, but not in danger of frost bite.

To the second part, we have to compete for limited seasonal track time on weekends with other racing organizations and sanctioning bodies. Scheduling has got to be a headache for all racing organizations looking to book their events. The weather in the midwest is a variable factor from year to year. I've been to the first race and it's been 60 degrees, and other years there has been snow. It's the price we pay for living and playing in a beautiful part of the country.

One of the reasons for double points is to increase attandance, no matter the conditions. Hey we're tough, we race, no matter the weather.  :D

     I have simply been trying to show how arrangement of the schedule can affect the enjoyment of racing and am not saying that any date is going to be ideal. Yes it's true that we race in almost any weather condition, unlike so many other forms of racing, and ultimately have more at risk physically by doing so (crashing on a bike vs. crashing in a vehicle with a cage around the driver). But statistically certain parts of the country see higher occurances of adverse weather conditions on a certain date than others. What I was suggesting was to try and use this to our benefit and increase the chances of better weather, no guarentees implied. I am well aware that scheduling is somewhat of a take what is available situation and doesn't always go the way you want. I also realize that there may be certain economic advantages to renting tracks during less desirable times of the year.
     You mentioned that double points are used to increase attendence no matter what the weather, yet as my original post commented there are racers who were not going to attend the 1st BHF event due to adverse weather, no matter if double points (which is what originally provoked my response). So if the weather was more desirable for racing (and no double points) I bet the turn out for the first event would be equal to or even higher than with the double points and adverse weather conditions. Add double points to better weather and you'll probably have exceptional turn-out.
     I am curious about the latex glove under the leather glove theory suggested earlier for the reason that it seems to go against what I have read about staying warm while skiing or snowmobiling. The most expensive protective wear for those activities brags about pulling moisture away from the skin to retain heat. I have had the grip heaters on my snowmobile too warm before which caused my hands to sweat and remember how cold my hands started getting even with the grip heaters still on. While skiing I have been overdressed before causing me to sweat and I quickly got cold after that.
     I realize that you started this thread as entertainment, but it quickly evolved to something which I thought was a valid issue so I responded. Sorry if I offended you, that is not my intent. I actually enjoy thought provoking conversation and was just looking for other peoples opinions of what I commented on, which is a good way to generate ideas which may benefit us all in the future.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

This is a photo taken on Friday evening of the first Blackhawk race in 2000.  I believe it was April 7, 2000 when 6" of snow was dumped on Rockton, IL!  We could not start practicing until noon on Saturday because we were too busy clearing the snow and ice off the racetrack!
Anyone have a good story about that weekend?

I won my first trophy that weekend.  Rolled my EX500 up to the line, and there were only seven bikes in the race!  It was Lightweight Sportsman, the first year that they combined the class where AM/EX were competing for the same trophies.  I did not know this, so when I realized that I was the first amateur in the race, I just followed the lead experts and did not try to pass them.  I was very dissapointed when I found out that my presumed win would be totalled as a fourth place.
Even with only seven bikes in the race, there was still lapping, and on the last lap of the race, I was run off the track at the exit of Five by a lapper.  I sailed out into the snow-covered field, certain that I was going to die.  I sure didn't dare touch the brake or gas out there in the snow!!!  I went from the exit of Five all the way to Six with my knees clenching dents in the gas tank.  Slushy snow was flying everywhere, and I could hardly see.  Believe it or not, I re-entered the track at the exit of Six, right behind the lapper!  I gave him a gesture that may or may not have meant "You're #1," and finished the race.  Though I hadn't fallen, my bike and I were soaking wet and muddy.  As I rode past Six on the cool down lap, I opened my visor and yelled "Everybody's doin' it Skidoo!!!"  The corner workers responded by throwing snowballs at me!!!

[EX#996]

I realize that you started this thread as entertainment, but it quickly evolved to something which I thought was a valid issue so I responded. Sorry if I offended you, that is not my intent. I actually enjoy thought provoking conversation and was just looking for other peoples opinions of what I commented on, which is a good way to generate ideas which may benefit us all in the future.

Sorry Mike:

I guess I am suffering from too much work and not enough fun.  A week from now I will be putting the finishing touches on the motorhome and waiting for Renee to get off the bus so we can leave.  I can't wait to see everyone again.

Dawn   :)

P.S.  At least the forcast doesn't have snow in it now.  Just rain.   :-/  However it's snowing here today, about 1/2 inch already, possibly 3-6 by tonight.   ::)

[sdiver68]

That picture is insane!  :O  I think I would cry if my race bike had snow on it  :-/

[EX#996]

That picture is insane!  :O  I think I would cry if my race bike had snow on it  :-/

LOL!!!!

I took a look at that picture and was trying to come up with a way to put the studed dirt bike tires on it.   ;)

But then I remember Weggie_Man chastizing me and another member of the BBS for suggesting such an idea.   ;D

Dawn

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

That picture is insane!  :O  I think I would cry if my race bike had snow on it  :-/

     The weekend it snowed that I spoke of previously (April '97) they still had the few of us that were there bring our bikes to tech for approval, even though it was snowing quite a bit at that time. I had made a little snowman and had it stuck on the top of the triple clamp and had a smiley face drawn in the snow on the windshield when I rode my bike in the snow over to tech. After I shut off the bike, the guy at tech looked at the smiley face and snowman on my bike and said "You guys are warped!". To this day I still laugh when I think of that guys reaction. I also made a freind that weekend with the guy who was pitted next to me, so looking back now I guess it wasn't all bad.

[OmniGLH]

Well guys the weather is starting to look a little bit better.  I get weather updates from the weather channel in my inbox twice a day...

-----

Tonight: Scattered thunderstorms this evening becoming more widespread overnight. Low 49F. Winds SSE at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 70%.

Tomorrow: Thunderstorms in the morning followed by occasional showers in the afternoon. High 51F. Winds SW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 70%. Rainfall near a half an inch.

Tomorrow night: Considerable cloudiness. Low 26F. Winds WNW at 10 to 20 mph.

Saturday: Sunshine along with some passing clouds. High around 40F. Winds NW at 10 to 20 mph.

Sunday: Mix of sun and clouds. Highs in the low 40s and lows in the mid 30s.

Monday: Considerable cloudiness. Highs in the low 50s and lows in the upper 30s.

Tuesday: Partly cloudy. Highs in the upper 40s and lows in the low 40s.

Wednesday: Windy with times of sun and clouds. Highs in the mid 50s and lows in the low 40s.


Let's all keep our fingers crossed...

[spyderchick]

        I am curious about the latex glove under the leather glove theory suggested earlier for the reason that it seems to go against what I have read about staying warm while skiing or snowmobiling. The most expensive protective wear for those activities brags about pulling moisture away from the skin to retain heat. I have had the grip heaters on my snowmobile too warm before which caused my hands to sweat and remember how cold my hands started getting even with the grip heaters still on. While skiing I have been overdressed before causing me to sweat and I quickly got cold after that.

The reason you get cold when you sweat is due to evaporation. If you have latex gloves on, the sweat is trapped and does not evaporate; thus you will stay "warmer". Realize that we only do sprint races and the "endurance" races run 30 minutes, so in these conditions the latex gloves work remarkably well.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

The reason you get cold when you sweat is due to evaporation. If you have latex gloves on, the sweat is trapped and does not evaporate; thus you will stay "warmer". Realize that we only do sprint races and the "endurance" races run 30 minutes, so in these conditions the latex gloves work remarkably well.

     I knew about evaporation causing cooling, but wasn't thinking about the insulating affect of layering in this situation (the trapped sweat being another insulating layer, and not being able to evaporate due to the latex glove). The clothing I spoke of previously pulls the sweat away from the skin not giving it a chance to evaporate while still contacting the skin. The sweat idea reminds me of the scuba diving trick to help increase warmth by creating a liquid layer inside the suit (if you don't already know about this technique, use your imagination as to where the liquid comes from  :o ). Though I personally have not scuba dived before it does make sense as to the extra insulating layer created by the liquid, also the liquid layer created inside the latex gloves by sweat. I will try the latex glove idea the next time it's barely above freezing and I am riding a motorcycle for some insane reason.

[Nate R]

Well, as usual, the forecast changes again. It looks like it'll be NICE for racing Saturday, and practice on friday, but chilly in the morning. Sunday looks a little cold, but should be LOTS of fun still!  :D

We'll see how much this changes in the next week.

Hopefully it won't rain. (Crosses fingers)

[MightyDuc Racing]

Well, as usual, the forecast changes again. It looks like it'll be NICE for racing Saturday, and practice on friday, but chilly in the morning. Sunday looks a little cold, but should be LOTS of fun still!  :D

We'll see how much this changes in the next week.

Hopefully it won't rain. (Crosses fingers)

By "chilly", do you mean in the low 70's?   ;D

[EX#996]

By "chilly", do you mean in the low 70's?   ;D

LOL!!!!

Chilly up north is mid 40's.

Dawn   :)

[MightyDuc Racing]

That's fricking freezing!!!   ;D

[Super Dave]

Personally, I think that it is ludicrous that the Mid-West Region has thirteen events.  We've pretty much got more than anyone else.

And an early April date in our area?  Give me a break?  The potential for bad weather is good.  Not high, but good.

States down south where weather can be much better than here don't start much earlier than us.  So, what is anyone trying to prove?  That we can make racers more financially exausted eariler in the year so that they can't go to Daytona for ROC?  

I would be happy to see the first Blackhawk go away.  Start at Road America at the end of April (which isn't much better, for that matter).