More BS

[tzracer]

Found this on the Ohio EPA web site. From the wording, auto exhaust, such a Midas, is likely EPA legal. The downside to a major national chain installing non-conforming exhaust could be significant. Haven't had a muffler replaced in quite a while so I have not looked at the warranty about EPA compliance.

Also seems that enforcement of EPA regulations is by the EPA, not local law enforcement. Local communities can have local sound ordinance (cannot be more strict than the original exhaust system), that is easier to measure/enforce than the EPA test. BTW the EPA teat is not a stationary sound test - it is moving at full throttle in a specific gear and rpm (determined by a formula) past a sound meter - I know because I have done these tests.

What it boils down to, is that some not OEM car mufflers may already be EPA compliant. There is nothing stopping motorcycle exhaust companies from making EPA compliant systems.

From Ohio EPA

Question 26. Can I install glasspacks or small turbo mufflers instead of direct-fit or
cataloged replacement universal mufflers?
Answer 26. Exhaust back-pressure is an element of design of the emission system and any
change could be considered a violation because of the possible effects on emissions. Any such
changes should be approached cautiously because of the potential to adversely affect emissions,
performance, and warranty coverage.
While Ohio EPA would not recommend, encourage, or endorse any exhaust modification
that makes the vehicle different than the original certified system, at the present time Ohio EPA
is not pursuing enforcement actions if a repair shop merely installs glasspacks or small turbo
mufflers after (not at) the last converter and after the exhaust system has been "Y"ed together to
a single exhaust pipe.

[SVbadguy]

My big,ugly,obnoxiously loud metric cruiser has a horn on it that sounds like a freight train and here in D.C. the meat puppets do not hear it over their whiney,self-centered inner voices. They do hear my Vance & Hines 2 into 1 when I rattle the moldings off their doors with a couple blips on the throttle. I have a close call nearly every time I ride on interstate 95 including today while on my way home from church. I will run loud pipes until I move to an area where the car drivers are paying attention. Where is that????

How about that?  I'm in the DC area too.  Maybe some these other riders should spend some time here with these homicidal drivers to get another point of view.

[GIGOLO]

Except that your freedom ends where my ears begin. You are free to decide, but you also accept the consequences of your decision. With freedom comes personal responsibility.

The hard part about personal responsibility, is that people dont always do what you want them to do with it.  This country is filling up with people who look, act, and think just like everybody else.  You might say that an aftermarket exhaust isnt going to be the magic pill to make one unique from the rest.  I say if you let them take that away, then something else, and so on and so forth, eventually there will be 5 billion John Q. Publics'.  Tolerance is the word, its being pushed everyday.

[123user]

Brian is right.  The vast majority of aftermarket systems are non-compliant with EPA regulations.  So... noisy or not, they're still federally-prohibited.

What's more compelling is that the AMA is butting into local politics.  I can't see why an organization based in Ohio would have any business interfering in local NYC politics.  Let's face it, after selling off much of their pro-racing interests, the AMA has become little more than just another political action commitee.

I suspect that their interest in this lies more in protecting the gray-market manufactures than defending your right to have noisy bike.  Personally I'm pissed that I have to be an AMA member  to race with AHRMA.  All you have to do is read their monthly to realize how "out of touch" the AMA is from the typical motorcyclist.  Hell, this year they nominated someone from their own board of directors for "motorcyclist of the year".  I can think of 10 people off the top of my head that have had more (positive) influence than Stan Simpson-  Come on!  The only think Stan Simpson did was to realize that the AMA leadership was too incompetent to run their most valuable asset-- AMA-superbike.  

[RMGSXR124]

It's funny to hear someone say that  cars are allways trying to change lanes into them, but they rev up there loud pipes to warn them. I thought the loud pipe was to prevent them from even trying? I'm confused?

[kl3640]

Brian is right.  The vast majority of aftermarket systems are non-compliant with EPA regulations.  So... noisy or not, they're still federally-prohibited.

What's more compelling is that the AMA is butting into local politics.  I can't see why an organization based in Ohio would have any business interfering in local NYC politics.  

Because it's the American Motorcyclist Association, not the Ohio Motorcyclist Association?  The bigger question should be:  What is a lawyer from Arkansas who grew up in Illinois doing as a NY senator (for the time being, anyway)?

Yes, they are basically a form of a PAC, special interest lobby, call them what you will; but whether you have a dislike for special interest groups or not, they are at least standing up for your rights as a motorcyclist.  I don't agree with everything that they do, such as their opposition to the proposed tariffs on <500cc bike imports from the EU in retaliation for the tariffs that they place on US beef imports, but at least they advocate their constituency's interests zealously.

[tzracer]

People are free to choose. It is too bad if they don't make the choices that you want them to make. Personally I don't think people are melding into a single type of person. However the slow erosion of our constitutional rights, such as the Patriot Act, will ensure that all people are the same.

Aftermarket exhaust are fine as long as they are EPA compliant. Motorcycle exhaust companies are slow to accept this. The AMA has had meetings with them because the EPA has begun to take notice. The companies have admitted that the problem is one of their own making.

The AMA is against the singling out of motorcycles.

[123user]

The problem with the AMA is that now their primary function is as a PAC, while racing, riding, wrenching...etc has become a sideline.  Really, their main role in racing has become as an insurer... which is sad.

The point I was making is that the AMA is wasting their money defending something locally even though it's clearly already illegal federally.  Its illogical to "beat the drum" on dead issues such as this, but they do because it evokes an emotional response from the membership... I call that propaganda!

Its pretty obvious that the AMA board has been unable to operate effectively for years.  Recent years have shown unethical behavior and a complete inability to officiate racing with a fairly applied rulebook.

I agree with the erosion of our rights, however, the AMA does not seem to be ethically quallified to represent the average motorcyclist. 

[kl3640]

The problem with the AMA is that now their primary function is as a PAC, while racing, riding, wrenching...etc has become a sideline.  Really, their main role in racing has become as an insurer... which is sad.

The point I was making is that the AMA is wasting their money defending something locally even though it's clearly already illegal federally.  Its illogical to "beat the drum" on dead issues such as this, but they do because it evokes an emotional response from the membership... I call that propaganda!

Its pretty obvious that the AMA board has been unable to operate effectively for years.  Recent years have shown unethical behavior and a complete inability to officiate racing with a fairly applied rulebook.

I agree with the erosion of our rights, however, the AMA does not seem to be ethically quallified to represent the average motorcyclist. 

If you ever read their monthly publication, American Motorcyclist, the Letters section is replete with instances of people riding motorcycles who receive tickets from state governments in violation of federal laws, e.g., HOV lane usage on Interstate highways, and so on.  The AMA needs to defend the local rights of motorcyclists because there seems to be no appetite on anyone else's part to ensure that the federal rights of motorcyclists are protected against incursion by local governments.

As far as being a PAC, the AMA makes no bones about it.  That has always (or at least for a long time) been their primary mission.  They've promoted racing as a form of motorcycle advocacy, but they were founded for and continue to be an organization which is dedicated to protecting the rights of American motorcyclists.  Their moto has for some time been: Rights, Riding, Racing.  You'll note that Rights is first.

From their website:

Founded in 1924, the AMA has an unparalleled history of pursuing, protecting and promoting the interests of the world's largest and most dedicated group of motorcycle enthusiasts. The AMA focuses on rights, riding and racing through its government relations work, by sanctioning road and off-road riding activities and overseeing professional and amateur racing events.

You'll see that even their racing promotion activities are a form of their advocacy of motorcycles in general.

Protecting a local area's rights such as this is not "beating a dead drum" because proposals such as this are the beginning of the slippery slope.  The ability of an individual to sue NYC because he or she received a ticket for an aftermarket pipe is limited.  The ability for the AMA to do so is much greater, and if they succeed, then the next time that NYC considers such a proposal, they'll think twice.  The same is true for Chicago, LA, Miami, Dallas, or wherever, when they consider such a proposal and there is existing case law on the books which states that such municipalities cannot contravene federal law with local ordinances.

That is their point, and it is well justified.  I agree that the AMA has its own issues, as does any political organization, but I support them fully whenever they seek to protect motorcyclists rights from unfair federal legislation or from local legislation that attempts to fly in the face of federal statutes.

[123user]

"Slippery-slope"- Give me a break!  Sounds like chicken-little.  Seems we've become a "minority" that needs "saving and protecting"... pretty sad isn't it! The AMA has become a self-serving organization.  Just like every large PAC, their real objective is to remain politically relevant and well funded... and if they get a chance to help somebody, well they might just do that too!

If you want to dump your money into lobbiest group, feel free...I just like to ride, I don't need a legal team. 

[tzracer]

How many recall the attempt to ban sport bikes in the mid eighties. If not for the AMA it probably would have succeeded. A US senator had a bill written ready to submit to congress - AMA through their membership made it such a hot potato that the senator dropped it. The IIHS was behind the bill, they have never shied away from the fact that they would like motorcycles to go away.

Yes motorcycles are a minority. Most people could care less if motorcycles disappeared. I prefer the AMA getting out of professional racing to concentrate on protecting my privilege to ride.

[GIGOLO]

Here's a quote from Stan Simpson when asked what he thought the No. 1 issue is facing the A.M.A., "noise".  He states "it's a grassroots thing, you have to make it socially correct thing to do to reduce the sound level"

So you can probably guess which way they would probably go when faced with the question.  Furthermore in this interview in the Jan 2009 issue of American Motorcyclist, he mentions that Dave Mungenast Sr. (late board of directors member) urged him to turn the A.M.A. from a club into a business.  I think thats where I start to lose respect.