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new to CCS, need advice please

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EX_#76

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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2008, 11:33:25 am »


That make you feel better, Guy?  I'm going to talk to my wife for my daily therapy.  :D

I have time scheduled with your wife too (LOL)
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Guy Bartz
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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2008, 11:38:23 am »
Additionally, I have to say that the Armour Bodies stuff is very, very good too.  You can get that through http://www.cfm-woodcraft.com in addition to all the stuff that Woodcraft makes.  I don't think there is anything that Woodcraft has that isn't just great.  Good family too. 

Armour Bodies are actually made in the East now, but the standards by which they are made is by the guy that originally made them in Canada.  So, it's retained a lot of the quality and flexibility that he developed for his product, but at a lower price point. 


Armour Bodies are no longer made in Canada?
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Jason Levitt
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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2008, 01:06:58 pm »
Armour Bodies are no longer made in Canada?
Correct.  I think it might have been two years of production in the East.  Can't remember which place they are in, but the owner and his son travel back and forth for extended periods.  They are paying their people more, and, as a result, they have less turn over and they haven't had quality issues, that I know of.  I had a set in 2003, then I had some this year, 2008.  Both were very good, well, outstanding.
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Super Dave

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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2008, 05:50:14 pm »
I agree that the Armour Bodies stuff is A+ quality.  They actually have two different price points, and I believe Woodcraft has dealt mostly with the lower-cost version so far, which is what I've got.  I'd put it on par with Sharkskinz.  I'd like to see a set of the premium AB stuff.  I bet it's really nice.
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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2008, 08:41:17 pm »
as stated above, i would look at getting a good race ready 1 season or so old 600cc bike. You will spend a BUNCH of time and money sorting out a street bike that you then convert. Suspension is not just a "bolt on and go" item. You have to dial it in a bit, get the geometry in the ball park, etc. Fitting bodywork is not alot of fun, and putting all the other "stuff" on takes time (clip ons, rearsets, 520 chains, etc).
After 6 seaons of racing, im going back to buying good national level bikes that are a season old rather than buy new bikes and prep em like i did a couple seasons ago. Took 3-6 months to get em totally sorted.
Also.. riding a 600 initially will potentially make you a better rider. The big bike you tend to rely on twisting the throttle to make up for poor corner entry. Not to say riders starting out on 1k bikes don't get better.. just i think riding a 600 is better for learning initially.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 08:43:08 pm by MELK-MAN »
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dylanfan53

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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2008, 10:03:12 pm »
+1 on the Armor bodies and Woodcraft-CFM.  I mounted a set on a GSXR600 a couple weeks ago and it was a whole lot easier than anything I've mounted before.  I also decided to crash test them and they crash pretty well.  I'd suggest doing that before you get them painted. 

Now I get to see how well they accept a fiberglass repair job.

I also suggest checking out Woodcraft-CFM's scratch and dent section on Ebay (you can access it through their website).  I got an engine case cover for 25% less than retail and I couldn't even find a nick on it.  (Before I put that through the crash test, that is.)

Finally, I think you'll learn more, faster about suspension on a 600 jap bike of your favorite flavor with a fully adjustable suspension than on an SV with damper rod forks, IMHO and all that.  Of course, Buells already come with a fully adjustable suspension if you're headed for the lightweight classes...

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Don Cook
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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2008, 10:47:48 am »
Buy back the 10, sell it for what you can get out of it (part it out?).  Buy any newer used 600cc inline four and start riding.  Yes a used racebike can give you a head start...  but putting the bike together yourself will teach you a lot about the bike itself and how to work on it yourself.  Knowing how to work on your own bike can be a big plus and help you to learn how to set things up.   Assembling the parts yourself will help you build relationships with companys.  And ask lots of questions along the way.   Racing is racing.

As for your wifes bike, get two of the same bikes, that way you can swap parts if needed and setup on both bikes should be similar in the end.  (instant spare parts)
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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2008, 05:29:14 pm »
I have a mechanical background so I would prefer too build a bike myself, but I do recognize that there are deals out there that beats doing it yourself.  Ive read on a number of places how the 07 zx10r is such an awesome race bike, but also the contrary.  Whats the basis behind the negative views?  I have a lot of experience with engine, chassis and suspension setups, but not in regards to sport bikes.  Can anyone offer a resource on how to get started with the suspension.  When I was racing sprint cars there werea  few books that were invaluable for teaching setup baselines,  tweaks,  upgrades, etc.  thththththanks folks!
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Super Dave

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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2008, 05:49:34 pm »
Well, there's not much that can help you with bikes.  Occasionally, there are some one liners out there about what the swingarm angle or trail should be, but that never takes into account the actual cg location on the bike.  Next throw on a rider that weighs probably close to 40% as much as the bike, or more or less, and all him to move around thus changing the combined cg.

Generally, every year or two, the engine and chassis change so that often very little can be exchanged between the differing models.  These are ultimately street bikes and not race bikes in racing chassis with racing engines.  There's things there that just sometimes a struggle.

Basic chassis set up is to get the correct spring rate front and rear for what you're doing (racing) for your weight.  If you want to be really trick,  get some extra front and rear springs so that you can experiment for different conditions (rain) or the grippiness or lack of grip at certain tracks.

Geometry is a key issue, and experience is usually a better determination of where to go.  I've used http://www.4and6.com with a lot of help even though I do have quite a bit of experience.  Even then, getting it right is often about the large expense of track time and tires, both of which are very pricey.  Hence, it's easier to short cut and talk with Jim at 4&6 for me.

There's been a lot of focus on specifics for bikes at times, as in a 338mm rear shock length for a Suzukikawabunga 600, and it can offer a quick "one liner" opportunity for starting, going to some that have more experience deep inside of racing vs just track days can make a difference in understanding that there might be better opportunities going a different direction...like a shorter shock and a heavier spring.

Engine.  1000's have been spinning the rear tire on the banking at Daytona in 6th gear in stock form for a long time.  Few can get much more out of a 1000 compared to a 600 in lap times. 

Negatives on the 10...  Not a great contingency program compared to Suzuki, so there isn't a lot of racing or club level development happening.  So, the knowledge base is small.  I think their chassis in the 1000 has been kind of a compromise for sometime compared to the Suzuki or the Yamaha.  You're not going to have a lot of people that have any spare parts for you either if you do fall down and need help that weekend.  Look how many privateers, let alone B teams, have 1000cc Kawasaki's on the grid at AMA races. 

I've bought a lot of books on some of the topics you're looking for, but few have offered me much more than a kernel of what I wanted, especially from actually going out and competing at a very high level.  That usually shakes you down quicker. 

Keep it simple is going to be valuable.  Tires, brake pads, steel braided lines, springs for a start front and rear and probably a replacement rear shock and potentially valving changes on the Kawasaki forks, bodywork, and sprockets along with safety wiring should be a really good start.

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Re: new to CCS, need advice please
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2008, 05:52:46 pm »
You're mechanically inclined...

You can install the shock and do most things I listed.  I can do my own fork work, but it's cheaper for me to give it to someone that knows better what they are doing rather than me making a little mistake that costs me valuable time at the track.  I can't buy that back.  Once I'm at the track, I want to sort out how the bike feels, make adjustments to preload, dampening, gearing, and going fast.  Pulling a fork down between sessions during a club race isn't going to allow one to focus on what one needs to focus on.
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