2009 rule change request

[Eye-p]

I raced an 06 gsxr-750 at the beginning of this season and mine made 139hp on U4.

Actually you were running the same pump 93 that I was using that day.

[cbrf4_269]

how about stiffer penalties for obvious cheaters.

[roadracer162]

This is the same scenario just a different set of bikes. I was told that my aged FZR600 is a middleweight bike and I have agreed to abide by that thought. The other statemant to me was buy a bike that is competitive within the rules.

The 1098 has 350cc more than the Heavyweight bikes. It should remain as a Unlimited (my opinion). If the 1098 is not competitive buy something that is.

We can go on and on. The Ducati DS1000 in LW? I don't agree but what done is done. I now have a Duc800 and running in the Ultralight class. The 800 is comparable to the SV as compared on the track of the Florida region. I have a feeling this Duc800 is gonna be faster than my FZR600 as I am learning how to go faster on this bike.

Mark

[Garywc]

are they still goingto make the sv ultra lightweight next season?

[roadracer162]

No plans in stopping it so yes the SV will be Ultralight. Funny thing though is that the SV still beat up on the Duc1000 in the lightweight class (Arnie Hastings, Rodolfo Ramirez).

Mark

[Rookie]

The 1098 has 350cc more than the Heavyweight bikes. It should remain as a Unlimited (my opinion).
Mark

Twins have always had a 250cc advantage or more if you want to talk about BMW or Buells, and been in the heavyweight class. You guys are making it sound like suddenly there is a massive displacement advantage over 750 liquid cooled I4s. These are different engine configurations, they make comparable power. One has a little weight advantage, one has a little hp advantage but they both make comparable power and have always been in the same class.

This being the case why not drop the entire heavyweight class altogether since there is only one real manufacturer of 750cc bikes....

Like I said, I can understand the 1098R not being a heavyweight but the base model and even the S are in my opinion heavyweights. I dont see any reason to change this.

[roadracer162]

If memory serves me right the 750 inline 4 and the 1000 twin have been in the same class. I believe that the 1098 is one step above as far as displacement goes. Maybe Ducati should build an inline 4 if it is such an advantage. Not!

I know your argument and it is the same that I have used for my beloved FZR. The fact remains that there are more people vying against your argument. If you love the 1098 then run it. If you want to win then get something that does. I can't fight that, I bought a Duc 800 which is for now arguably the class leading bike for the Ultralight. Funny thing is I think the Duc 800 is gonna be faster than my FZR. With that thought I should do well in the middleweight class because that is where the FZR600 is supposed to be.

Mark

[Super Dave]

Twins have always had a 250cc advantage or more if you want to talk about BMW or Buells, and been in the heavyweight class. You guys are making it sound like suddenly there is a massive displacement advantage over 750 liquid cooled I4s. These are different engine configurations, they make comparable power. One has a little weight advantage, one has a little hp advantage but they both make comparable power and have always been in the same class.

This being the case why not drop the entire heavyweight class altogether since there is only one real manufacturer of 750cc bikes....

Like I said, I can understand the 1098R not being a heavyweight but the base model and even the S are in my opinion heavyweights. I dont see any reason to change this.

Buells and BMW's are different than the Ducati in that they are air cooled, I think you're aware.  Not to mention that the Buell even has push rods.  A 1098 is a full on deal. 

And no, they didn't always have the displacement advantage.  It happened in the mid 80's to get their involvement. 

Heavyweight classes still offer a good class for middleweight bikes to bump into without trying to race between corners with over powered 1000's too.  That's good revenue for CCS, WERA, AFM, etc.  Additionally, there are other manufacturers that could make bikes for that class. 

[Rookie]

Ok so youre talking about a decision made 20 years ago to put twins and I4s in the same class?

It seems more to me that the argument here is against the Ducati and not the rules package. Currently it says I4s up to 775cc for Heavyweight Superbike, ALL other engine configurations unlimited....are you telling me the XBRR isnt a "full on deal"???

You say buy a bike that is competitive for the class...well I did, I bought a 1098 that fits right in the rules for that class. I have no problem with a rules change but your arguments are against one bike period. It has nothing to do with changing rules for the class itself. In looking through the results this year in heavyweight Im only finding a handfull if that of people racing the 1098 so where is the issue all of a sudden? So you arent making a more level playing field anywhere, youre creating a smaller grid in that race. I have yet to see a 1098 take a win anywhere in heavyweight yet or even a podium in mid-atlantic. I do see that BMW and a whole lot of 600s do that though.

Regardless of any rules change I'll be out there racing anyway, I just dont like the idea of losing one of my favorite classes to race in because some people perceive this massive performance advantage.

Anyone see a 1098 racing ASRA? Maybe someone is but I havent seen it yet around where Im at.

This is just club racing by the way....

[Super Dave]

No, I haven't seen any 1098's in ASRA.  That's called choice.  Enter yourself.  Change it up.

I believe that Barret Long did well on the 1098.  I'm not going to look for the results, but you can.

Bikes don't win, though.  It has to be an individual that uses the tool in a manner that gives the win.

Is this rule against one bike?  The KTM RC8 is set to be released, and it is a 1190.  I don't know it's performance paramters.  Additionally, there is the Buell 1125R.  I have yet to see one myself at the race track.  Supposed to be pretty potent.

XBRR?  It's still air cooled, push rod.  And only one has finished the Daytona 200.  By AMA standards, it's a middleweight bike for FX.  Is it allowed in Thunderbike?  I don't believe so because of the rules for the frame and being an actual production street model.  That would make it only raceable in CCS Grand Prix classes and Supertwins.  Having actually raced against one, it's a really fast 600 with a fast rider aboard. 

[Rookie]

Clearly you have any answer for everything that doesnt address the question posed to you. You list bikes that arent even in production as an argument . You like to keep saying that buells are push rod/air cooled.... ok well they make a ton of torque and are not down on power at all. And whats your point about only 1 finishing a Daytona 200? There arent any 1098s in the AMA at all? So what, were talking about club racing in CCS.

By your own rationale the bike doesnt win so anyone racing heavyweight superbike shouldnt have a problem with a 1098 on the grid since it is the "individual using the tool in a manner that gives the win"

There arent 1098s in ASRA because they make nowhere near the power the I41000s make, if you cant see that then you truly are blinded by your opinion. I only use ASRA as an example because you propose the 1098 is an unlimited bike which makes it race against only 1000cc I4s.

I'll just wait and see what the rules changes are for next year and go racing. I've posted my opinon about it, Im certainly not going to argue about it.

[Eye-p]

Seems pretty simple. Since its the rider and not the bike, and the performance between the I4 750's is roughly on par with the KTM, 1125r, and 1098, they should all be legal for HWT.

Or, you could force them to go Unlimited and straight kill off the HWT classes altogether- aside from all the guys on 600's riding up...