Pro-Racing and Braking

[Nate R]

I'm finally getting some time to watch the 200 on tape, and that reminded me of a question I had thought about recently:

Watching the pros, a LOT of them have the bike ocillating back and forth a bit under hard braking, a LOT of the time. Not backing it in, just a weave under braking. I've always wondered at about what level that starts to happen. Is it happening to CCS Experts at all? Faster AMs?

Just curious at what level you all start to notice this happening, or whether it's happened to you.

[Super Dave]

You can get it to "feel" like that at the amateur level.  It can happen in two ways:  one...you're really good on the brakes.  two...the bike isn't set up right yet.

To get it to "look" like that, you'd probably have to watch an expert race and watch for someone that is really having a good day, enjoys the track, etc. etc.  Not enough money to race for at this level to really get to wound up about to hang it out a bit more.

It might feel like that, but too look like that...  That is a bit different.

[TreyBone]

You will be doing it in no time. I'm doing it just about everytime going into 1 and 7 at VIR ;D

[ecumike]

Same as Trey.. coming on the brakes hard into T1,T7, and even top of the rollercoaster @ VIR I feel the rear squiggling. Feels like when you skid the rear wheel on a BMX bike on the street when you were a kid. And I'm not using the rear brake.
:)

I think it's a kinda cool feeling, it's not like it's out of control.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     This can also happen if your suspension is not set-up for your weight and your getting alot of weight transfer into the front forks under hard braking. Once the forks collapse to the fully bottomed out position the transfer of weight then changes from collapsing the forks to lifting the rear of the bike. Once the rear wheel comes off the ground that wheel now wants to pivot around the front wheel which is causing this weight transfer in the first place by the hard braking action. To stop the rear from coming around you use the grip your hands have on the handlebars and the grip your legs have on the sides of the bike to stop this adverse action.
     This use to happen to me before I upgraded the valving and springs in my forks for my weight and ability. After doing this, weight transfer was greatly reduced and the rear end didn't want to be the leader of the bike as much as it use to. As you get faster you learn to carry alot more speed thru the turns and may find that you aren't braking as much as when you first began. After suspension upgrades it takes alot more braking to get the rear tire in the air which means that you can now use the rear brake to some degree to help in reducing your speed.

[r6_philly]

At VIR, on top of the rollercoaster, right before going down hill, I almost always get into a stoppie. I brake about 10 feet past the patches, and into the turn. I remember getting the rear up in the air about 3 feet last Oct, then turned down the hill with the front. I don't have much problem elsewhere, but that turn seems to give me the most weight transfer, and I can't keep the rear planted no matter now how I try to sit back.

I think you start to feel the rear wiggle when you brake just that much harder than what you are used to. Like when you chasing down someone, when you are trying to make up time, when you are shortening your brake zone... you will squeeze the lever a little harder, then you feel your rear become lively, then you stop applying more pressure. Unless your bike is totally not set up right, it is not really dangerious I think, and its nothing to worry about, just try harder to control the weight transfer before you stoppie...

[TreyBone]

I forgot about the top of the rollercoaster. You will notice you are going up hill and at the top it levels off. That in itself will the the bike lighter. I start bracking hard just after the patches( well, where the full course comes in) and then trail brake to the apex of the right hander. I love that section.
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes coming out of the right hander going up to the rollercoaster then you straighten the bike back up so fast that the front wheel will actually come of the ground a little bit   SSOOOO COOOOL ;D

[r6_philly]

I forgot about the top of the rollercoaster. You will notice you are going up hill and at the top it levels off. That in itself will the the bike lighter. I start bracking hard just after the patches( well, where the full course comes in) and then trail brake to the apex of the right hander. I love that section.
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes coming out of the right hander going up to the rollercoaster then you straighten the bike back up so fast that the front wheel will actually come of the ground a little bit   SSOOOO COOOOL ;D

That's just one of the reasons why VIR is my favorite track. Going toward the Rollercoaster, uphill, you are fully leaned to the left, then flick quick to the right, and you are right on your knee immediately. If you don't flick, rather ride a transition, then you are doing it too slow. Its one of those turns that you see the GP guys do, and it is real cool

Also, in turn 4-5, where you go hard left to hard right, you can pick the front end up too, and that is real cool...

[motomadness]

Check out Bayliss on the new Ducati:
http://images.motograndprix.com/multimedia/176/176042.jpg

Now that's a power slide.

[RKidd72]

I remember when I was racing I use to like that feeling of the rear end drifting into the corners and that feeling of the rear wheel off the ground when braking. That was fun.   ;D