Lap Time Results??? Who's in charge?

[r1owner]

Russell, also, getting the length of the track and calculating avg speed would be cool!  :)

[Russell2566]

This data should already be available in the software. I've seen it spit out at the track. Maybe once I get things rolling I'll/we can have a discussion with CCS... I'm sure loads of things are possible...

[Burt Munro]

Scott may very well have already had discussion with Kevin, but I know that one of the big improvements he is still wanting to implement is on-line registration.  I know there was some movement on this last year until it was suspended due to some glitches.

Tying this in with a dropdown list of riders/transmitters would seem to be a logical progression.  The tradeoff on all of this as always is the cost vs. benefit.

For those who have never talked to him, Kevin is a bit of a 'Technology Geek' himself.
(Why do I get the feeling I'm going to pay for that comment at Road America!)

I keed! I keed!

[r1owner]

Haven't talked to him about online registration.  I for one would like to see it.  Is CCS currently working on it with someone?

The problem I see with all these systems really is the lack of integration with some sort of rider database that "drives" all the other disparate systems.

For instance, if I register online, it really should be integrated such that the system knows it was me instead of just a person that registered and requires manual input.  Then from there, laptimes should be able to grab the same id for me and it should flow thru to the accounting system.... how far do you want to go?

It's cool to have all these standalone systems, but it would be awesome for them to all be integrated.  Don't get me wrong, something is better than nothing.

To get one big system running is a relatively big investment in time and energy.

See you at Road America! :)

[Peter.BoyWonder]

Any way I can get a peak at this file? What do you need from me such that I can see one. I might want to write a little something too. If nothing else it is a good programming exercise.
Thanks
-Peter

[r1owner]

It's attached to my 1st reply.

[kl3640]

First, Scott is 100% correct - there is no unique key that is common across all data sets, and there needs to be one, namely, something that can be used to identify riders.  That could then be used as the key for laptimes, registration, etc.  The lack of a database of record, coupled with the lack of a schema to be used in various tables in various db's serving various applications (including defined keys, which would likely be some field of some data type representing riders, would be my guess), prohibits proper integration of all of these extant or prospective systems in a way that allows more features/functionality, ease of implementation for new systems, and that ensures data integrity. 

Second, I suggest that anyone who is considering any undertaking to improve anything to do with laptimes coordinate with Westhold, the company that makes the Timing & Scoring system for several reasons:

1) The output of their software is the input for any other system that will present laptimes, etc.

2) They may already be working on several such features in the next release of their software (in fact, they are working on several new features, some of which have been mentioned/requested in this thread).

3) If they know that a separate project is in the works, then they may be willing to incorporate some features in to their next release to more easily facilitate "downstream" projects.

I know one person there who is integrally involved with their product development effort, and have pointed him to this thread for his information.  If anyone is considering working on any project related to Timing & Scoring, I would highly recommend contacting him first.  Let me know and I'd be glad to make the introductions.

I for one would be glad to be involved or even lead a systems review/overhaul project for CCS to evaluate the state of their data and systems, the data and systems needs, and the creation and implementation of a roadmap for delivering the desired services and underlying platforms - but they have a lot of other things going on with just running CCS, so while they may have the desire, I don't know if they have the time to pay attention to get something like this done, even if all that requires is some oversight and validation of the project's goals.  If started soon it could easily be ready for next season, but mid-season like this they're probably swamped as-is.  We could probably round up a fair amount of volunteer effort (myself for one), and along with the components that Westhold may be delivering with their next software release, my guess would be that the actual financial cost to CCS wouldn't be de minimus, but wouldn't be prohibitive at all.  In fact, the major cost would probably be machine costs (hosted server or VM, etc), which these days are extremely reasonable (especially considering that CCS's data, computing, and bandwidth needs would be relatively small, even for all of the offerings that have been discussed in this thread).

[Peter.BoyWonder]

It's attached to my 1st reply.

That file looks like race results rather than lap times. Am I looking at the wrong one or is there a lap time one as well?

[r1owner]

I like this.... let's get a CCS development team going.  LOL!

Peter, the laptimes are in there.  Below the finishing results... which I don't believe you can count on as correct positions BTW.

[musikkant]

First, of all, thanks to everyone involved in getting the lap times posted online!!  It is a great feature!!

Just one thought--what sort of ID would you guys need to identify each rider over the years?  If a rider for some reason has to change competition number in sequential years (e.g., fail to re-sign in time to get your old number), or if the rider moves up from Amateur to Expert and gets a new number? 

[kl3640]

First, of all, thanks to everyone involved in getting the lap times posted online!!  It is a great feature!!

Just one thought--what sort of ID would you guys need to identify each rider over the years?  If a rider for some reason has to change competition number in sequential years (e.g., fail to re-sign in time to get your old number), or if the rider moves up from Amateur to Expert and gets a new number? 

Scott and I actually had this discussion a few months back with Westhold.

Since CCS uses the last 6 digits of SSN on the riders' race licenses, and that info is requested on entry forms, that's likely the identifier that they use if there is ever any confusion over a rider's identity, and is probably the informal unique key that they use in their own filing system; thus, that would probably serve as a sufficiently unique key for a comprehensive CCS database.

The issue there is privacy, but since people give that # to CCS anyway, and since CCS requires it and uses it anyway, it would be a non-issue so long as that information wasn't actually published or accessible to anyone but the system and just used behind the scenes within the DB.  That would then work and be carried over from season to season, etc, and even if someone had a reason to change their name or SSN, that field could be updated or the old # just used.  I'm sure that they have some process for foreign riders who don't have SS #'s, i.e., some way of assigning a 6-digit # to those riders to be used in lieu of the last 6 digits of an SSN.

Then, if that served as the primary key for a rider info table or tables within a larger rider DB, which would serve as the DB of record, it could then be the foreign key in other tables such as registration, laptimes, etc.  The schema would actually be rather simple since the number of columns and data types would be extremely limited, when you think about all of the info that ever passes between a rider and CCS.  In fact, a single DB for all CCS activities would likely have a fairly non-complex schema, and could serve to populate temporary tables that would be used for things like on-site registration, scoring, etc, where real-time communication to the master DB wouldn't be feasible, or as a redundant solution for when said link fails.

[r1owner]

I would stay away from the SSN only because it is not guaranteed to be unique.  A GUID that is generated either by the database or an application would be a better option I think.  Once you have that number assigned.... it's yours.... if you leave CCS and come back years later, if they still have you in their system, you still have the same GUID.

Only drawback from a programmer perspective is it's a PITA to find any related information for a particular person cause you have to type in a long GUID instead of an integer (assuming you used an identity field for a key).