Racing in the rain for AMs

[fourandsix]

What I meant was ... you will not be using a set of rains per weekend because its not likely to rain every weekend, and you probably won't be as hard, and ride as many laps on rains.

I did 4 practice sessions and 3 races (include a GT) race at Daytona, and the tires are barely worn, my DOT's from the next day were worn much more.

That propably isn't very many laps at daytona as those races are fairly short with the execption of the gtu race.Also at daytona you are not on the side of the tire very much. Also what lap times were you running in the rain? it is not very smart to think you can use the same rain tires over and over.

[Super Dave]

Exactly.  And rain tires are at temperature at "room temperature".  So, when they get heated up...well...

And just like race DOT's, they are for racing.  If you're not using up the rains, you probably can go a lot faster.  You go slower on DOT's and they will last quite a while too.

[r6_philly]

That propably isn't very many laps at daytona as those races are fairly short with the execption of the gtu race.Also at daytona you are not on the side of the tire very much. Also what lap times were you running in the rain? it is not very smart to think you can use the same rain tires over and over.

Not over and over, but not per weekend either. They look scuffed, not worn. Rain tires work by tread design and by compound. If the tread is in good working condition and compound relatively in tact, why can't you over and over? Tread moves water and silica helps wet grip. Unless the tires get cooked and become hard and harsh, I don't see why they would work a LOT worse?

Besides, a real good rider can probably ride similar laptimes on DOT's than me on rains, so maybe I should be more concerned about my riding, than my tires?

[r6_philly]

Exactly.  And rain tires are at temperature at "room temperature".  So, when they get heated up...well...

And just like race DOT's, they are for racing.  If you're not using up the rains, you probably can go a lot faster.  You go slower on DOT's and they will last quite a while too.

so when a non-front-running AM ask about how long a set of rains lasts, is it not correct to say since they are not going fast enough to use up the rain, they will last a while?

I believe most AM's don't buy rains to go faster in the rain, they buy it to not crash in the rain. In that sense, a set of not-abused used rain will do the job. I have ridden on street tires in the rain at trackdays, it is not really not bad. Because we were going slower than race pace.

[FastBoy]

The rain is a great equalizer. Really rerwards smooth riding but rains are a must regardless of skill level. The nice thing is that rains will let you know when they're cooked in a gentle way with a little slip there, little slip here and you know their time is up. Happened to me during a race. My lap times showed it too. Went in, had a new rear rain mounted before the next race and promptly dropped 10 seconds off my lap times from the worn rain tire. Not so much as a hint of a slide from then on.

[Super Dave]

so when a non-front-running AM ask about how long a set of rains lasts, is it not correct to say since they are not going fast enough to use up the rain, they will last a while?

I believe most AM's don't buy rains to go faster in the rain, they buy it to not crash in the rain. In that sense, a set of not-abused used rain will do the job. I have ridden on street tires in the rain at trackdays, it is not really not bad. Because we were going slower than race pace.

Rain tires also have a different cord construction, and that is also one of the dramatic reasons why they are different.  Because of that, there are things that you shouldn't do to them, but, additionally, it's why they don't last as long.

As for rain being the great equalizer...  

Rain is about survival and luck.  If it were the "great equalizer" the finishing order would probably be about the same, just closer.

[chris_chops]

I've noticed my rains don't work very well down at gateway.  When I asked a tire guy what was up, he told me I didn't have "acid rains".  I was like "what the f#@k are acid rains?". ;)  SuperDave?

[r6_philly]

Rain tires also have a different cord construction, and that is also one of the dramatic reasons why they are different.  Because of that, there are things that you shouldn't do to them, but, additionally, it's why they don't last as long.

As for rain being the great equalizer...  

Rain is about survival and luck.  If it were the "great equalizer" the finishing order would probably be about the same, just closer.

So how would you gauge that the rains have gone, or worn out, aside from laptimes? From the the sound of it you mean the tires will be much less effective way before the visual deteriation begins, so how should one know?

[FastBoy]

I noticed in my second race with them (they were used when I got them) that they began to slide through the same corners each lap and caused me back off for concern of the "big slide". I started running 8-10 seconds slower each lap. After that race I went in had a new rear rain mounted and promptly dropped 11-12 seconds off each lap without so much as a hint of a slide anywhere even though I was pushing harder than before. The tire guy told me that when the treads start to round off at the edges they will go away at a steady rate. They will have plenty of tread depth left but it will have smooth, round edges as opposed to  nice, well defined rubber at tread's edges.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

If you don't run in the rain.. you're a pussiass biatch!

or you are a Nascar driver. :D ;D :D ;D

Love riding in the rain. Hell I go out and do 200 mile rides in the rain on the YZF. Pretty much keeps the roads free of calamari. ;D

[r6_philly]

I noticed in my second race with them (they were used when I got them) that they began to slide through the same corners each lap and caused me back off for concern of the "big slide". I started running 8-10 seconds slower each lap. After that race I went in had a new rear rain mounted and promptly dropped 11-12 seconds off each lap without so much as a hint of a slide anywhere even though I was pushing harder than before. The tire guy told me that when the treads start to round off at the edges they will go away at a steady rate. They will have plenty of tread depth left but it will have smooth, round edges as opposed to  nice, well defined rubber at tread's edges.

I think I am going to try to re-tread my rains myself when it gets smooth, and try it out on a track day to see if it works better