Help interpreting a crash video

[kl3640]

I need some help understanding what happened to me during last weekend's HW SB race.  Fortunately www.onthethrottle.com got it on video.  Go to their website, then go to Club Racing, then go to CCS Race 6 Daytona March 1st.  About 2/3rds of the way through, in Turn 4, you'll see #518AM (me) and #172AM duking it out and going a bit wide.  Then, you'll see #94AM (a blue bike) take Turn 4 very tight and wind up to the outside of #518, and there is contact, after which #518 drives off the course.

Here's my recollection:  I was coming through 4, a little wide, looking to set up for 5.  Then all of a sudden, WHAM, on my right side, right on my thigh.  I didn't really see the other bike at the time, but my leg hurt like hell so I drove off the course and went to have it checked out.

Looking at the video now I'm wondering if perhaps #94 should have NOT tried to go to the outside so aggressively, especially since I seemed to be holding line, or if I in fact didn't hold line and drifted too far to the outside or was at fault in some other way.  I would appreciate the perspective of some of the more experience racers on this forum.  Also, if anyone knows that guy #94, I'd like to hear his perspective on the incident.

I couldn't race the next day so I lost $270 of registration fees (no refunds/credits at Daytona according to CCS), plus I didn't finish that race itself, not to mention all of the points I lost, so needless to say I was hopping mad - but I'm honest enough to accept the blame if in fact it was my fault.

I know that shit happens in racing, and "that's racing...," but I just want to understand this incident better because if I can do anything differently in the future to avoid a similar situation, then I'd like to know what that is.

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to look at the video and comment.

[Gixxerblade]

It looks like he just overcooked the turn and had nowhere to go except to t-bone you. You are lucky that you didn't crash but like you said "That's racing." Sorry that you lost $270. He did have a faster entry speed than you but you did have the right-of-way. Hope this helps.

[kl3640]

It looks like he just overcooked the turn and had nowhere to go except to t-bone you. You are lucky that you didn't crash but like you said "That's racing." Sorry that you lost $270. He did have a faster entry speed than you but you did have the right-of-way. Hope this helps.

Hey, thanks.  I asked a couple of friends with more racing experience than I (Experts) and they kind of said the same thing as you...but we all seem to agree that "that's racing."  Still, I'd like to ask the guy about his perception of incident in case I see him around the pits in the future.

[R1Racer99]

Looks like his fault to me but I could be wrong. I've never raced there but based upon all of the other riders it looks like there's no reason to go over that curbing, it looked like he turned too early, didn't try to give you any room, and just ran into you. It also didn't look like he was very smooth in any of the other footage so maybe it was a rookie mistake or something. Not sure but at least you didn't go down and lose even more money out of it. 

[Gixxerblade]

It happened so fast that If you didn't know what you were watching you wouldn't have realized that another rider was hit. The guy that hit you probably didn't even think he hit you that hard.

[dylanfan53]

Okay, you asked for opinions so I respectfully submit mine which is a little bit different than the other posts...

When you ran wide you opened the door for him to pass on the inside.  He saw the opportunity and went for it, which is why he's charging the turn.  He couldn't make it work so it looks like that was his error in judgement.

At the same time I don't think you can claim that you were "holding your line" because running wide would have been holding a wide line which would have left enough room on the inside for him to get through and there wouldn't have been contact.  When you tightened your line at the exit to set up for the next left hander you effectively changed your line and faked him out and it caused the two of you to come together.

You asked how you could have avoided it.  If I run off line I am ultra aware that someone may have filled my spot (if I'm in traffic I assume it) so I look to see if I can make a "lane change" to get back to where I was. In this case, he didn't get a wheel on you so he may not have been close enough to see.  I'm not sure you could have avoided it, but maybe.

So I think it's a race incident and that both of you contributed to situation.  I'm glad you're both okay and that it wasn't any worse than it was.  Hope that helps.

[LMsports]

I'm with Don.

And like Don said, when you go off line you gave the line up. Don't expect that your spot is still there waiting for you once you vacated it.

Another thing, I noticed that you were upset about lost fees etc. I wouldn't even bring that up. You spent money to register for races and it is up to you to put your head down and make the most of your racing. You pulled off of that race because you got bumped and you no longer felt comfortable continuing. You made that choice the same way that someone with a tire that is going off may pull off. That choice was on you and noone else. The choice you made to no longer compete for the rest of the weekend is the same thing...your choice. Too many times nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions and it is easier to be upset at someone else who in this case was hungrier than you were. I don't mean any disrespect by that comment and I'm sure it comes across meaner that it is meant to be. But racing is a competition. Sometimes I feel like some of my competition gets a little over the top also, but bottom line everyone has their own interpretation of how bad they want to be in front. Everyone weighs their own risk vs. reward and you can't hold others to your same point of view in a competitive environment.

Lastly, don't let the incident eat you up and discourage you. I applaud your effort to understand the situation as long as you aren't using it to validate your own point of view, but rather as you indicated, to learn more about the situation.

To avoid the situation in the future...put your head down, get hungrier, go faster, and leave everyone else behind you. Then you'll have nothing to worry about!  :)

[foughtstrong]

Once you went wide and off the line you basically left that line open for the bikes behind you.  The minute you went wide you gave up that position and you should of look for traffic before you came back in to the line.  Sorry to say but it looks like it was your fault.  Though I'm glad no one wreck and you weren't seriously injured.  Learn from this and go forward.

[R1Racer99]

Look at the other guys line, he hardly looks like he's doing a good job, it looks like he saw a small opening and charged in not thinking that he might run out of room to make the corner, and the curbing couldn't have helped his entry much. Maybe he thought you would stay to the left and not come back across to the right but it didn't look like it would be clean anyway. It's still racing, I'd be happy about being ok and try not to worry about whose fault it was.

[r1owner]

I'm thinking he left the door open too.   

Having said that though, I think the other dude was a little too willing to ram it open with one of those things the dudes use on cops to break into a crackhouse.

[kl3640]

Thanks for all the feedback.  Here's where I am with it now:

No doubt I went wide and left the inside (of 4) open.  However, when I look at it as objectively as possible (given that I'm one of the riders), 94 seems to me have have charged at the opening pretty hard, which is fine, as this is racing; however, I know that if the situation had been reversed and I would have tried the same thing that I would have been watching the bike that gave me the opening, expecting that it would be setting up for the next turn.  Of course when someone goes wide or whatever they're are going to try to set up for the next turn in most situations.  Now, maybe if I didn't follow the rules of the road so much on the track I would win more; but by the same token, neither have I hit someone like that either.

I accept my responsibility for going wide, but I also didn't abruptly go back on to the "correct" line.  When I watch the video I view my own riding as smooth, as least as compared to #94's (not just at that time, but elsewhere).

I'm not steaming mad at the guy now or anything, but I do need to understand that situation.  Running wide is going to happen, so I need to understand if I shouldn't have tried to set up for the next turn (given that I didn't do it abruptly), and if I shouldn't have, then what about the next corner...I'd have to resume my line eventually, wouldn't I?

As for the fees, I understand what you're saying LM Expert, and I don't take offense, but I don't believe that your statement of it being a "choice" is valid.  I was physically unable to continue.  I pulled off right away because I knew that from the pain in my leg.  It's not like a tire being "off" where you can change your pace, etc.  It's more like a tire going flat.  I was taken to the infield hospital, where I was x-rayed, given medicine and crutches, etc.  I even tried the next day's practice session but couldn't ride (the Dr.'s though I was nuts for even trying).  Sorry, but I disagree with you - there was no choice in the matter.  Just because I pulled off instead of crashing, doesn't mean that I had the choice of continuing in the race.

I appreciate everyone's feedback here, and I'm really trying to learn from this.  Going wide happens, but what could I have done differently?  Looking at the video again, I really don't see that I drifted back across the straight that much at all...so should I start doing a "lane check" every time I run a little wide?

[Gixxerblade]

What ended up happneing to your leg that you couldn't continue if you don't mind me asking?