Pirelli contingency

[Eric Kelcher]

I have just been notified that Pirelli is changing their program for 2008. The first 3 races ran under the old program previously announced paying top 3. The new program is paying top 5 and will be in effect starting with the races this weekend. The revamp reflects the increased competition that CCS racers face and payouts are in line with that.

here is link to new payout information

[2old2fat2slow]

Nice! Thanks for the scoop!

[ahastings]

........ The revamp reflects the increased competition that CCS racers face and payouts are in line with that.

here is link to new payout information

They really didn't increase anything. They took what was being paid to the top 3 and spread it out to the top 5. And increased the minimum rider requirement for top 5 to 10 riders from 8 last year. In reality the payouts have been cut considerably from last year and the tire prices have been increased.

[clutch]

How does it reflect the increased competition that CCS racers face and payouts are in line with that?  It really seems like Pirelli Tire company may have hit some financial restraints or problems, and has to seriously cut back contingency for 2008.  The payouts for the majority of the expert classes are $70, 60, 50, 40, 30 in CCS and $90, 80, 70, 60, 50 in WERA.  In 2007 WERA Expert it was $250, $175, $150, 125 and 100 in all classes.  With the cost of tires going up and contingency really going Down (you win 3 races and it doesnt even buy a set of tires, you must win at least 4), it is going to put more of a hurt on riders running Pirelli tires.  I dont think it reflects a change in the competition that CCS riders face...I think it reflects an Oh crap, we need to make more money and pay out less money.

[Eric Kelcher]

I am aware of the change from last year. Clubs with less competition had higher payouts then what CCS riders were awarded when faced with larger grids. The system this year reflects those that have larger grids have larger payouts, period.

Now I did notice that the way the breakdown is changed it means that some classes have less money in certain positions, most notabley class winners, but the average payout for a CCS weekend went up from 5390 to 7900  Is it better for some? no, but is it better for most? yes!

[clutch]

It's not better for most when last year Pirelli paid out top 5 with more money.  I can feel that you cant say anything negative about Pirelli, but ultimately the contingency is less this year and last, and I believe last year they did pay more in CCS than this year and they did pay top 5 last year.  It's ok, it is a corporate level descision that is going to ultimately hurt racers pockets rather than help...across the board, all organizations, not just CCS

[Eric Kelcher]

Sorry Sean, you are right there have been revisions since I first looked and now organizations with grids 25% less or more having more contingency from Pirelli makes my first statements invalid about CCS racers being rewarded for the increased competition they face.

[gntbldr]

but still. some money is better than no money. IMHO

I'll be switching from Michelin to Pirelli for '08 just for shits and giggles even though Michelin is the ONLY sponsor that gave me contignecy in '07

[TommyG]

You may want to take a gander at michelin`s increased contingency!

[gntbldr]

You may want to take a gander at michelin`s increased contingency!

Holy cow Tommy. I still owe you a six pack of beer from the last race at BFR now it looks like I'll owe you more with breaking news like this!

michelin contingency looks to be outstanding

[red900]

Eric, Are they still only paying for the first race in a twin sprint weekend?  I did not see that defined on the pirelli website. 

Looks like they cut amateur money big time. 

[Eric Kelcher]

Sorry forgot to put that, I will be sure it is listed in the requirements and classes paid.

Pirelli is only paying on the second race run on a twin sprint weekend.

[ahastings]

Michelin is looking better and better.

[r1owner]

No kidding!  I was actually thinking of switching to Pirelli... looks doubtful now.

[gearhead]

Since I already own several sets of Pirelli DOT race tires, I plan to run them at least through the early part of the season.  Having said that, who should I contact about buying the sew-on patch and extra decals?

[Garywc]

pirelli should have decals for ccs at tech and maybe patches if not go on to pirellis web site and contact them they should give you patches

[Team Spalding]

If a guy switches to Michelin from Pirelli are the trackside services from Michelin as good? Service from The Racers Supply Co. last year was pretty good.

[LMsports]

In the Midwest and Great Plains CCS regions as well as CRA the trackside service is phenominal. Tom Mason isn't just a tire vendor but a true resource for racers across the board.

[r1owner]

In the Midwest and Great Plains CCS regions as well as CRA the trackside service is phenominal. Tom Mason isn't just a tire vendor but a true resource for racers across the board.

+1 to that!  I wasn't sure where the poster was from, but without a doubt Tom is a stand up guy.

[Eric Kelcher]

Since I already own several sets of Pirelli DOT race tires, I plan to run them at least through the early part of the season.  Having said that, who should I contact about buying the sew-on patch and extra decals?

The stickers we should have in tech, we have not received our supply yet for 2008 season from Pirelli but they should be here soon  plus often the trackside vendors have a supply as well. If tech is out then the requirement for them can not be enforced, ie it is waived for that event. We do have the sew on patches and there should be plenty of those in the tech sticker boxes as we received those late last season and still have a reserve at the office.

[EX_#76]

Does anyone know what contingency bridgestone is offering for 08?  I am having a hard time finding it on their website.

[Beaz]

Im looking for bridgestone contingency as well

[Team_Serpent]

Im looking for bridgestone contingency as well

Your looking in the wrong place   

This is a Pirelli contingency thread and Pirelli Rules!!!

[ronhix]

I am just not happy at all with Pirelli's contingency offering this year.  Too bad I like them so much...

[ahastings]

After studying the contingency more , Michelin is really only better for the guys that can finish consistently 1st and 2nd when you factor in the extra cost of the tires vs Pirelli and Bridgestone is only bettter for the guys that don't finish outside the top 3, so that is  a small portion of riders.

[theQman23]

Hello Guys.  The Michelin contingency is awesome in 2008, with many classes paying 300, 400, and 500$ per win.  Check it out at
http://www.bibmen.com/2008CONTINGENCY.html   
Thanks, and ENJOY!!!!
-Quentin

[Team_Serpent]

Just about every year contingency programs change.  One year band x's contingency looks more attractive, the next year it's the other brand. 

Same with the actual tire, bridgestone looked to have the best tire last year in Moto-GP, out performing michelin who was on top the prior year.

If you feel compelled to jump ship because of a couple of dollars between one contingency plan vs the other you may want to consider your loyalty.

It maybe be old school to some, but building loyal relationships with the companies and the people who you rely on to provide the best customer service, technical assistance and ultimately support is key.   

[spyderchick]

If you feel compelled to jump ship because of a couple of dollars between one contingency plan vs the other you may want to consider your loyalty.

It maybe be old school to some, but building loyal relationships with the companies and the people who you rely on to provide the best customer service, technical assistance and ultimately support is key.   

Something else to think about, as you build those relationships, you will get offered more attractive packages over time. Also, skipping around from brand to brand can actually hurt your chances of being offered the chance to test product, additional track time and other small perks the loyal riders tend to get after a while. This goes for more than just tires. This isn't only for the fastest riders, it's for the people the reps have grown to trust and respect.

[clutch]

I tend to agree but disagree.

[Team_Serpent]

I tend to agree but disagree.

That's because you're a nesba cr 

[104fahl]

I know you can get stickers at tech but do they have patches?

[2old2fat2slow]

I know you can get stickers at tech but do they have patches?

Here's a silly question from a rookie.... Do you have to have a patch as well as a sticker to get paid???

[Team_Serpent]

Here's a silly question from a rookie.... Do you have to have a patch as well as a sticker to get paid???

You can usually find the individual company requirements and payout amounts here http://www.ccsracing.us/forms.html but it looks like it's not posted yet but coming soon.

In the mean time try here http://www.us.pirelli.com/web/motorcycle/racing/road-racing-contingency/default.page

[CounterSteerer]

Pirellis 2008 CCS contingency program is very disappointing. They make a great tire but why not reward the people winning on your tires? Last year if you won 4 races you would come home with $700, this year with the new program $280. That is not enough to cover 1 set of tires! How can they intice new riders to use their product with such poor incentives. I have always been a brand loyal guy and support those who support me and the sport, but this feels more like a kick in the eye than a reward for winning. I will continue to run Pirellis because I believe in their product and my obligations and hope Pirelli will review this new contingency program and determine to implement a new plan for 2009 one that will at least pay for a set of tires after a weekend of winning races.
Just out of curiosity what tire manufacture pays the best for the top three spots?

[r1owner]

Just about every year contingency programs change.  One year band x's contingency looks more attractive, the next year it's the other brand. 

Same with the actual tire, bridgestone looked to have the best tire last year in Moto-GP, out performing michelin who was on top the prior year.

If you feel compelled to jump ship because of a couple of dollars between one contingency plan vs the other you may want to consider your loyalty.

It maybe be old school to some, but building loyal relationships with the companies and the people who you rely on to provide the best customer service, technical assistance and ultimately support is key.  

I agree with what you're saying.  I am running Michelins cause that's what Tommy sells.  I used to run Pirelli's cause that's what Tommy sold.  I was bummed when he stopped selling them and sold Michelin's only.

I wasn't real happy with the Michelin's last year (could be the fact that my bike isn't or might not be setup correctly either) so I can't entirely blame the tires.

That's why I was contemplating switching to Pirelli this year.

Anyone know pricing differences between the brands for this year?

[Team_Serpent]

Here's a silly question from a rookie.... Do you have to have a patch as well as a sticker to get paid???

just found a link to the exact info you are looking for http://www.us.pirelli.com/en_US/browser/attachments/pdf/08_Contingency_form_ASRA-CCS.pdf

[clutch]

Pirellis 2008 CCS contingency program is very disappointing. They make a great tire but why not reward the people winning on your tires? Last year if you won 4 races you would come home with $700, this year with the new program $280. That is not enough to cover 1 set of tires! How can they intice new riders to use their product with such poor incentives. I have always been a brand loyal guy and support those who support me and the sport, but this feels more like a kick in the eye than a reward for winning. I will continue to run Pirellis because I believe in their product and my obligations and hope Pirelli will review this new contingency program and determine to implement a new plan for 2009 one that will at least pay for a set of tires after a weekend of winning races.
Just out of curiosity what tire manufacture pays the best for the top three spots?

Bridgestone.  Their slicks are supposed to be great.  They pay $200 a win in all expert classes and $150 a win in the SOLO's...that is with WERA.  Their CCS contingency is really good as well.

[2old2fat2slow]

Thanks for the link TEAM_SERPENT! Realistically, it looks like more of an investment on my part than the potential payoff will be ,considering this is my son's rookie year. Just got the leathers back from the shop so no patch! They aren't getting free advertisement from me on the bike so I think we will burn up the first 6 sets of pirellis and possibly switch to someone who pays better.

[theQman23]

Countersteerer, check the contingency at http://www.bibmen.com/2008CONTINGENCY.html
As for the reasons for the reduction its very simple. Sales vs capital vs budget.  Pirelli and Dunlop had betweent the two of them about 70-80% of the market in the north, and they had at least half or more in the south.  Over the past four years, Michelin and Bridgestone have stepped up big time, and now Pirelli has less sales.  They had a lot of riders getting free product, and they tried to continue to give the same level of contingency and free product out that they always did, but the sales were diminishing so they started to see a problem in the old bottom line department.  They didn't want to cut back the allotments to their loyal heavy hitters, so they cut back on contingencies.  Next year, they may put contingency back, but then they'll stop giving free product.  Some way or another, they must try to recover from the lost revenue, that came from a reduction in market share.  Meanwhile, Bridgestone and Michelin continue to dominate MotoGP, and they continue to sell more and more tires at the club level in the U.S. and they continue to use some of that increased revenue towards paying out more contingency.  Tire companies don't get to do what they want, they have to do what pays financially, since they are "companies" and if sales of one brand goes downhill, and sales of another is on the rise, then the contingencies and market support will have to follow suit.  This is why Michelin is paying 400 and 500$ in some of the fast guy classes for a SINGLE WIN and Bridgestone is continuing to pay like every single class there is I think.  It isn't that Pirelli doesn't want to pay better, they do.  I promise you they do.  They want to give you as much as they can.  But unfortunately for them, with the market shifting as it is, they just can't give out more than what they profit. 
Just .02 cents from a tire guy.
-Quentin  of Mize Mobile

[Team_Serpent]

Pirellis 2008 CCS contingency program is very disappointing. They make a great tire but why not reward the people winning on your tires? Last year if you won 4 races you would come home with $700, this year with the new program $280. That is not enough to cover 1 set of tires! How can they intice new riders to use their product with such poor incentives. I have always been a brand loyal guy and support those who support me and the sport, but this feels more like a kick in the eye than a reward for winning. I will continue to run Pirellis because I believe in their product and my obligations and hope Pirelli will review this new contingency program and determine to implement a new plan for 2009 one that will at least pay for a set of tires after a weekend of winning races.
Just out of curiosity what tire manufacture pays the best for the top three spots?

I believe you are quoting novice payouts.  Compare the programs for each manufacture and you will probably find bridgestone paying the best for novices this year (depending on the classes you run and where you finish).  Last year it was probably Pirelli and that inticed new riders.  Like I said before, these programs and payouts change every year.  Some years are better than others but I think you'll see that they are all within a few dollars.

[Team_Serpent]

Thanks for the link TEAM_SERPENT! Realistically, it looks like more of an investment on my part than the potential payoff will be ,considering this is my son's rookie year. Just got the leathers back from the shop so no patch! They aren't getting free advertisement from me on the bike so I think we will burn up the first 6 sets of pirellis and possibly switch to someone who pays better.

Let's face it, your tire bill is going to be a large portion of your racing budget with or without contingency.  It's your money, spend however you what and jump around to whatever product you want.  Won't make any difference to me, I'd prefer to see you on Pirellis but ultimately you are going to make your own decision.

I was only trying to share with the board out how important I felt it was to develop loyal relationships with the companies and people you will be working with everytime you go to a race.  If you don't see that as being important then do whatever you want.

[Team_Serpent]

Countersteerer, check the contingency at http://www.bibmen.com/2008CONTINGENCY.html
As for the reasons for the reduction its very simple. Sales vs capital vs budget.  Pirelli and Dunlop had betweent the two of them about 70-80% of the market in the north, and they had at least half or more in the south.  Over the past four years, Michelin and Bridgestone have stepped up big time, and now Pirelli has less sales.  They had a lot of riders getting free product, and they tried to continue to give the same level of contingency and free product out that they always did, but the sales were diminishing so they started to see a problem in the old bottom line department.  They didn't want to cut back the allotments to their loyal heavy hitters, so they cut back on contingencies.  Next year, they may put contingency back, but then they'll stop giving free product.  Some way or another, they must try to recover from the lost revenue, that came from a reduction in market share.  Meanwhile, Bridgestone and Michelin continue to dominate MotoGP, and they continue to sell more and more tires at the club level in the U.S. and they continue to use some of that increased revenue towards paying out more contingency.  Tire companies don't get to do what they want, they have to do what pays financially, since they are "companies" and if sales of one brand goes downhill, and sales of another is on the rise, then the contingencies and market support will have to follow suit.  This is why Michelin is paying 400 and 500$ in some of the fast guy classes for a SINGLE WIN and Bridgestone is continuing to pay like every single class there is I think.  It isn't that Pirelli doesn't want to pay better, they do.  I promise you they do.  They want to give you as much as they can.  But unfortunately for them, with the market shifting as it is, they just can't give out more than what they profit. 
Just .02 cents from a tire guy.
-Quentin  of Mize Mobile

I'm not sure I agree with the market share quotes entirely but thank you for typing all that and trying to help everyone understand one of the main reasons why these programs change each year.

[104fahl]

I know you can get stickers at tech but do they have patches?

[Garywc]

hope this answers your question 104fahl in another post in this thread  on page 2 Eric said they have patches and stickers at tech if  they aren't available at tech you don't have to have them for that event
plus the tire vendors might have them

[104fahl]

Thank you Garywc.

[ekraft84]

I agree with everything Jason has said.  Brand loyalty is a big part of the picture.  At least for us it is.  We've developed such a good relationship with Pirelli, it's much more than just about the contingency.  It pays off in a number of other ways.

If you're switching brands every year for contingency reasons, IMO, I'm not sure that's the best road to travel ..