Race on DOT's?

[vanillagorrilla]

Anyone out there race on DOT tires like Pilot Powers, Diablo Corsas or Dunlop Qualifiers?  I've been road racing a cr85 mini for a few years and will continue to do so, but I'd like to transition into a SV650.  I seriously cannot afford to run race tires, and the generator and warmers they require.  It's my understanding that the DOT/trackday tires heat cycle much better than a DOT race or slick, even if they've been kept up to temp on warmers. 

I'm not planning on coming out and winning it all....I'm realistic about my ability level and weight (240), I know I wont be picking up the next Yosh factory bike.  However I would like to have some fun and push myself.  I'll likely only do 4-5 races and a few schools this year.  Any suggestions?

[limy_1]

If you plan on getting on the track at all you need to get into
the DOT race at a minimum.

With just any old DOT you are comparing qualifiing tires to race tires.

[Ridgeway]

I raced my entire first season on Pilot Powers, and I did not instantly go faster when I switched to the Power-Race line.  In certain conditions, like a damp (not full wet), really cold and/or green track, I've experienced that Pilot Powers can actually work better than the DOT race stuff.  It's a great intermediate tire.  All that said, race tires with warmers are the way to go most of the time.  I still keep a set of Pilot Powers in the trailer for the other situations though.

[Super Dave]

My fastest time on a set of Pilot Powers was only about two seconds off my fastest ever time on the same bike.  If using a set of tires like that is your gateway to starting in on the addiction of motorcycle racing, I'd probably say that it could be done.  Generally, you won't win races, but it is a very potent tire that has a track relationship.  No, not as good of traction, but it is close.  I do like recommending full DOT race tires because of the extra traction they offer you to help cover your mistakes.  Think of it as a cushion. 

Hopefully, that will help you make your decision.  Good Luck!

[ghost05]

This will be my first year "racing", but I've got some stupid street years and a lot of trackdays under the belt... one time a friend of mine put it to me this way:

"Everything you do to, or on, your bike comes down to two tiny patches touching the road... do you want the cheapest option out there or the best you can get to lock that down?"

Today's street tires are certainly very capable, but to me, tires make all the difference in the world and I use the best a layman can get...

[vanillagorrilla]

I hear ya, but I'm talking about LW SS amatuer.... and Pilot Powers are 220 a set...Power Race's are near $450, and last 1/4 as long.  SO....they're roughly 8 times the cost.  It's not like I'm coming out on Cheng Shin's....PP are good tires.

I dunno.  You guys are probably right, but I think I gotta go at this way at first, until I can pinpoint that the tires are the things holding me back.

[Boober]

Your prices AND your math are off!  Check around you can do better than 450.  Remember the money you save buying cheaper tires with less traction will not compare to the cost of your first crash/injury!  Whether you plan on taking it easy or not my experience is when the flag drops you will try to beat the racers in front of you and they WILL be on race tires! Just my two cents....

[Ridgeway]

Broke bikes and bodies are expensive to fix too.  It's hard to give a definitive answer without knowing what kind of lap times you'd start out turning.  Speaking for myself, I didn't have much track time before I started racing, so I started out pretty slow and the Pilot Power street tires served me well for my first season.  Increased speed reduces that safety buffer.

One thing I do know, is that it's nearly impossible to push your own limits as a rider if you don't have complete confidence in your tires.

It's also worth mentioning that there's more to it than just the stickyness of the tire compound itself.  A DOT race tire can have a shape, size, and carcass construction that's very different from that of a street tire.  This generally requires adjustments to the bike when switching back and forth between types of tires.  Race tires are designed to have a pretty substantial footprint at full lean.  Street tires tend to be more of a compromise.

Again, I'm not saying don't do it, since that would be pretty hypocritical.  Just more things to consider.

I agree that $450 per set for Power-Race sounds high, particularly for an SV.

[benprobst]

That price is insane on any  PR series tires. Call around. Look for the PRC front and the medium 160rear, 350 would be an average price on that. Give Walt Schaefer (256 538 5906) a shout. He is pretty much numero uno when it comes to michelin tires in this country, he is down south but ships really reasonable. Tommy is great at the track in the MW too. The PRC's will last you a minimum of two weekends at mid pack lw times on an SV. And a medium rear will solidly get you through a weekend with some grip left over. The Pilot Powers are good, but I found myself riding on the edge of there traction often, not a good place to be for someone new to the sport. They are capable of fully competitive times and race wins in the lw class especially in the am ranks and right conditions(ive won 4-6 races on them in the past two years) I ran low 12's on them at gateway in shitty conditions and my best times on race tires were high 10's. So the pilots are good enough, but the PR series tires are worth the extra few bucks. And plenty of guys get by without warmers. Guy Bartz won races as an AM over the past few years  and was a quick expert without them in CCS MW lw classes.. Same goes for a couple of ULTRA fast WERA lw guys.

[vanillagorrilla]

Good points.  I figured I could do better than $450, especially at the track, but that is a price I found through a few of the more common web vendors.  I was just using it in comparison to the PP prices I found from the same vendors.  There was an article in Roadracing World a year or two ago where they compared all the common trackday/dot race/slick tires.  I seem to remember some suprsing results.  Anyone know what issue that was in? 

[roadracer162]

http://www.motorace.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=MTSBT

[HAWK]

On an SS SV650 Pilot Powers will do fine as long as you are not pushing them to track record pace. They are also easier to ride as they are more forgiving upto their limits. If you can't afford a generator and wormers then Pilot Powers will also be safer onthe first lap or two as well. The thing to keep in mind if you run Pilot Powers though is to be sure you don't get sucked into chasing down some one on better tires. I ran them on  my Hawk in ULWSB with no problems, just be realistic.

[vanillagorrilla]

Wow, great price on the Power races.

Good adivce on the pilot powers, too.  I'm still not sure what I'll do.  Maybe a track day or 2 or the pilot's to see how they area?  Any opinions on the Dunlop Qualifiers vs the Pilot Powers?  Better, worse, same?

[truckstop]

You can also try here. STG does free shipping, and usually ship very quickly.

I ran Pilot Powers the first half, and Power Races the second half of last season. I like the Power Races better. The Pilot Powers get greasy on really hot days, but then I'm not fast, and never pushed them beyond their capability. They do warm up faster, and stick better in the rain than the PRs.

[EX_#76]

That price is insane on any  PR series tires. Call around. Look for the PRC front and the medium 160rear, 350 would be an average price on that. Give Walt Schaefer (256 538 5906) a shout. He is pretty much numero uno when it comes to michelin tires in this country, he is down south but ships really reasonable. Tommy is great at the track in the MW too. The PRC's will last you a minimum of two weekends at mid pack lw times on an SV. And a medium rear will solidly get you through a weekend with some grip left over. The Pilot Powers are good, but I found myself riding on the edge of there traction often, not a good place to be for someone new to the sport. They are capable of fully competitive times and race wins in the lw class especially in the am ranks and right conditions(ive won 4-6 races on them in the past two years) I ran low 12's on them at gateway in shitty conditions and my best times on race tires were high 10's. So the pilots are good enough, but the PR series tires are worth the extra few bucks. And plenty of guys get by without warmers. Guy Bartz won races as an AM over the past few years  and was a quick expert without them in CCS MW lw classes.. Same goes for a couple of ULTRA fast WERA lw guys.

And Grasshopper beat me twice in a row on pilot powers!!!  They are good tires.  The Pilot powers will not put you on the ground and the race tires are no gaurantee you won't crash. 

What is important is to have your bike set up well enough for you to feel the bike beginning to loose traction before it is too late for you to correct the situation.  As a LW AM you should be just fine.  When you feel like the tires are limiting you speed, buy the race tires.

Thanks for the words Ben!!

[251am]

Anyone out there race on DOT tires like Pilot Powers, Diablo Corsas or Dunlop Qualifiers?  I've been road racing a cr85 mini for a few years and will continue to do so, but I'd like to transition into a SV650. 

My first race was on Metzeler Tourances on the R1100GS. Those tires had 9000 road miles on them. Didn't win anyhting but did not come in last either.

  I use Pilot Powers for a rain tire, and I know they'd be good for an amateur for a weekend or two. Don't use warmers, go with about 31-35 PSI...

[vanillagorrilla]

I hear ya there.  My cr85 mini roadrace bike gives me little to no warning when I lose traction... Ithink a lot of it has to do with the fact that I run 125 gp slicks on it without warmers, I don't think they'er ever getting up to temp.  It can't help that the bike still has the MX valving in the suspension either.  This is exactly why I've been asking these questions - I want to take the tires out as a variable while I try to set the SV up.

31-35, huh?  35 sounds awful high...but then again, you've been there and I haven't.

Thanks for all the advice guys, this has been very helpful to me.

[foughtstrong]

Since the issue about tires is up.  Which Michellin compound should on run on my 03 Gsxr 750?  Still new so I'm not looking at racking up great lap times. Soft/Medium etc........?

[251am]

Since the issue about tires is up.  Which Michellin compound should on run on my 03 Gsxr 750?  Still new so I'm not looking at racking up great lap times. Soft/Medium etc........?

  I run the PR5 rear and PRC front on my K1 750. IIRC rear PSI of 22, front at 29 or so. Get the PowerRace series Michelins from Tom Mason in the Midwest; there is a Power Race tire available on-line, but it is NOT the same thing as what you get at the track from Tom.

  Yeah, the Pilot Powers for track work should be run around 31-35, somewhere in there. Feel em out to your satisfaction and make adjustments for feel. Start with a baseline PSI at the beginning of the day, with a cold tire, and leave it alone for the day. If you want to make a pressure adjustment during the day do it with a cold tire that's sat at least an hour or more.     

[Garywc]

i want to try these

[smoke54]

dots-great stick,fast warmup,fall off fast!:)
tim