Tire Warmer Question

[PolishPete]

Thanks for the scientific data!!  :)  It makes sense.

You guys are right.  I really am not pushing the tires to their limit...or really my limit.  I guess I didn't start to push myself until my last 2 trackdays last season, and once I realized I wasn't near my riding ability/limit...I pushed a little harder, and then winter came.  So I'm really excited to get out their this year to see what I'm really capable of doing.

[Super Dave]

So my question is with all these temp ranges being mentioned, has anyone checked to see if the tires actually get to theses temps? Or is it the termostat that gets to the cut-off temp?

Pete, I would think through reasoning that if you are not pusking the currently mounted tires and they will last 5 track days with much more life, then you aren't pushing the tires to provide sufficient heat. I have done some of my own (the best that I can) scientific method of experimenting on tires and pressures but not temp. I took note of rise in pressures (objective) and also notes on my riding impression (subjective) and also included some lap times to help me figure this thing out. I found that if I didn't push too hard during a session and lap times are down from my baseline tire pressures were also down. I can only presume that tire operating temps are also down in a situation such as this.

Mark

Well, how many things do you want to measure?

Yeah, we have ran warmers, then checked the tire's heat, but the rim has been cool.  Keep it on the warmer and getting the heat into the air in the tire, and into the rim, those are other issues.  A thermostat is still good on a warmer so that it doesn't heat too much.  You know, put the pizza in for 10 minutes at 400 degrees is not the same as 1 minute at 4000 degrees.  At some point, you want the heat to soak in. 

Someone will chime in.

As for a tire on a 600 and running up front.  Who runs a new tire more than sixteen to twenty two laps before calling it done and putting it in the practice pile.  Depending upon how many races you do, one might easily go through four rears and two fronts over two race weekends. 

The Power's are fun tires.  Still not going to last forever.  And they are still more sticky when new. 

[roadracer162]

Pete,

Don't get me wrong, I am not very fast nor am I an expert but for me it makes sense. My advice is to get out there and learn. Don't push too hard at first but work up to it. I took some time for me to realize how much I can push the front and actually sense it. There is so much to learn regarding riding, then there is even more to lean about the bike. Guys like Super Dave can help with the learning process on the set-up in his school. You will get pleanty of advice from many a rider about how to go fast. It all comes down to what you do with it.

Mark

[roadracer162]

Thermostats make a lot of sense to me and your statements are right on. My point is that  oven that you turn the setting to 350 degrees but only to find out that your turkey isn't done because it really is 250 degrees. What I am asking is anyone has actually found the actual temp, if 180 is at the thermostat or the tire and the actual results on the track from that difference.

Mark

[Ducati23]

I use the Woodcraft's with the digital adjustable modules. They work very well. It takes a little time to soak into the wheels. 15 - 20 min gets the tires fully warm, but it takes a bit longer to get the rims warm.  The insulation and covering is a bit thicker than what comes on Chickenhawk/MGP/Suzuka type warmers.

It always seems better to fully warm up the tire before taking to the track, the tires seem to last longer. I always put the warmers back on after returning to the pit but don't plug them in unless I'm going right out again. If there is more than 30 min to the next ride, I wait 'til 30 min before and plug them in.

[clutch]

It should take about 45 min to get the wheel and tire warm.  When you come back in, just set them to 120 to keep the heat in the tires.  It wont hurt, actually helps.

[Scotty Ryan]

When I won a couple championships on an SV650 - I would get about 2 sprint races out of a rear and about 3 out of the front.. I got to the point where I would just swap the front everytime I did the rear.... The wear of the tire also reflected the track conditions that day - the chassis/suspension set up and the track you we were running that weekend.......  Now a days I do run a bit higher front tire temps then most Michelin users...... I run front Power Race's at 165 f front and 170 f rear for the 180 and 180 for the 190..... Length of initial heating depends on the temp outside - usualy 25-30 minutes... If I have a while between races I will just wrap the tires without plugging them in when I get off the track - then plug em in about 20-25 minutes before... I have been told that the tires should be between 160 and 180 for long enough to get the rim itself heated........ Honestly tho - at this point my tires only last me one sprint on the rear and maybe a couple on the front.... But not worth the risk......

[dylanfan53]

Hey you guys with tire rubber temp sensors....I think what Mark is asking is if the tires were warmed to 175degrees on the tire warmers, when you come in from the race and take the rubber temp with a sensor, how warm is the tire?

On the other hand, I'm distracted by the Packers game so maybe that's already been answered.  If so...'scuuse me. 

Go Packers.

[Scotty Ryan]

The only true way to measure the temp of a tire is to use a pyrometer. Which measures the temp of the inner core - not the tire rubber... Everything I have learned and experienced leads me to believe that the carcas of the tire has more of a to do with how the tire feel/works - then the rubber itself....

[Super Dave]

Hey you guys with tire rubber temp sensors....I think what Mark is asking is if the tires were warmed to 175degrees on the tire warmers, when you come in from the race and take the rubber temp with a sensor, how warm is the tire?

On the other hand, I'm distracted by the Packers game so maybe that's already been answered.  If so...'scuuse me. 

Go Packers.

Kind of depends upon the day.  I ran an old tire last year, and we used a spectro graph thingie on it, and I was only at about 100 degrees.  I didn't like the way the front worked.  Usually, seems like 120+ is very normal.  I've seen rears at 163 degrees on cold days working well, and we've seen tires go out after being on warmers at 160+ and coming back in after eight laps in the cold a good deal lower. 

I raced for Avon some time ago, and their target temperature was around 180, but at Daytona I kept reaching 220.  Was a bias ply tire.

[roadracer162]

That's some good stuff guys, thanks. There seems to be so much stuff to learn about tires that usually my 46 year old mind just gets plain worn out. This will be my third year as an Expert but by no means do I have the dillusion that I will be the fast guy. I do however enjoy racing, riding and learning even more about this great sport.

Mark

[Super Dave]

Well, there's one thing that everyone should learn, and it's the one to go to when there's questions:  FRESHER'S FASTER.  Safer too.