Getting License - Racing Questions

[PolishPete]

I came on this board looking for tips to get into racing about 3 years ago (maybe 2).  In that time I've gotten a lot of input and knowledge.  I did Learning Curves and a track day 2 summers ago, then about 7 trackdays with NESBA this past summer.  A friend and I are planning on doing about 10-12 trackdays this summer, and after buying Rob S's trailer recently and talking with him, we figure maybe it's time we try our hand at racing (as that't the ultimate goal).  We planned on doing one more year of practice doing track days, however Rob feels we're better off jumping in and getting our feet wet.

So, we'll probably try to do a weekend or two of racing mid to end of the summer.  What all do we need to do to get our licenses and be able to race.  Do I have to take Learning Curves again?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

[smite1]

They'll prolly make you take learning curves again...  I think the class is only good for a year.  Shoot an email to the office. 

I agree with Rob... get into racing now.

[Sobottka]

i didnt know you were polishpete!!!   like i said, most AM's have only as much or less experience than you... take the dive! 

[Super Dave]

Racing certifications are only good for 365 days.  After that, yeah, you'll need to go to an approved school for recertification. 

[PolishPete]

Thanks for the input guys.

Any specific reason why everyone says to jump right in?  I would think this would make the AM level a little more dangerous, if there were a lot of people with little experience racing.  Is this not the case?  At what point do you guys think you can know if you're ready to race.  For example, when I'm out on track days, whats a sign to look for that would let me know I'm ready.

I'm the type of person that likes to learn everything about everything and in detail before jumping into something, so I thought slow might be best for something as dangerous as high speed motorcyle racing.  Am I just looking into it too much?

[Super Dave]

Well, the only way to experience racing is by racing.  You do it by doing it.  If you're not doing it, you're not doing it. 

Try and do are completely different.  Similarly, want and doing aren't the same.

Before track days, track time was only available by racing.  But I don't recognize todays racers with huge numbers of track days under their belt as any more or less safe than those that follow the rules given in their simple licensing school. 


If you don't think you're ready to race.  Don't.  No one can make the decision for you.  You might never be ready.  When you want to, do it. 


That make some sense at all?  Not being mean, just cutting to the chase.

[Greg_Williams]

Dave's right.  At some point, doing additional track days to prepare for racing is like masturbating to learn to be a better lover.

[r1owner]

Well, there are two schools of thought I guess... you can sit back and do trackdays till you know you can come out and turn dominant laptimes (it's been proven to work).

Or you can throw caution to the wind...

I did a total of one trackday before I raced.  Did I make mistakes... sure... do I still make mistakes... yep. 

If you're at all competent on riding a bike, you'll be fine.

[r1owner]

Dave's right.  At some point, doing additional track days to prepare for racing is like masturbating to learn to be a better lover.

LOL!

[honda60071]

Like what they said just do it. If you feel not ready then stop. Do a race feel it out, you'll be glad you did. One thing does make it better have someone with on your first race because you will pressured to have everything just right and it won't happen trust me. I'm no expert like dave or some other people on this board but chaces are you'll love it and can't wait until the next race weekend.

[Super Dave]

Hey, after my first race, I felt sick.  (IRP - April '87 - WERA National)

Honest. 

I didn't have any other real experiences before hand though either to shake off some of that sensory overload. 

I made a decision to continue, and it's been tons of fun, and some crying, ever since. 

[Willyz]

I'm the type of person that likes to learn everything about everything and in detail before jumping into something, so I thought slow might be best for something as dangerous as high speed motorcyle racing.  Am I just looking into it too much?

Red900 has a brother? Your last name isn't Boyd is it??   

BK

[Jason748]

Looks like your getting set-up, my old bike, Rob's Trailer...  I agree, you've spent enough time masterbating, it's time to get on with some real lov'in 
Retake the class, either the learning curves or Dave' Visionsport school, and do a race weekend.

[Sobottka]

i did my race school
then one trackday (1 day)
then did a 4 race weekend 

[Super Dave]

I think I did my race school, a hundred race weekends or so, then a track day.  I'm not sure I'm ready for track days...LOL!   

[PolishPete]

Maturbating to be a better lover = Too funny.

I guess that's a really good way of putting it.  So now, Learning Curves of Vision?  Why?

What's a typical race weekend like?  We'll probably be doing Blackhawk.  What's the timeframe, practices, $/cost for racing like? (not the equipment like tires/fuel, but the cost for each race, etc.) I'm running a 600rr?  What classes?  Jason?  Maybe I'll email you and you can let me know.  I'm not sure what I'm eligible for based on what's done to the bike.  Where can I look this up?  I think I would need the plastic piece that holds the transponder.  Where can I pick that up? 

See guys, I'm getting ready for my first race in January, and it probably won't be till' July.  I like to be in the know.

Thanks again for the info guys.

[PolishPete]

I think I did my race school, a hundred race weekends or so, then a track day.  I'm not sure I'm ready for track days...LOL!   

LOL

[bill999s]

The only thing I would add is that if you race a track you've never been to before, do the Friday practice day if it's available. My very first race weekend I did VIR. My good friend says "don't worry, you'll be fine." I missed my first practice, which gave exactly 10 minutes to learn the track. The bright side was I didn't wreck until my third race.

[Grashopr]

What's a typical race weekend like?  We'll probably be doing Blackhawk.  What's the timeframe, practices, $/cost for racing like? (not the equipment like tires/fuel, but the cost for each race, etc.) I'm running a 600rr?  What classes?  Jason?  Maybe I'll email you and you can let me know.  I'm not sure what I'm eligible for based on what's done to the bike.  Where can I look this up?  I think I would need the plastic piece that holds the transponder.  Where can I pick that up? 

TYPICAL Race weekends for me go ilke this: 

Weekend prior to:  Prep the bike, change the oil, check for loose brake bolts, engine bolts, etc..   

Thursday night:  Travel time.
Friday:  Practice Day.  If I've never seen the track before, I 100% DEFINITELY do the practice day.  If I've seen the track before, try to get into one of the early endurance races on Saturday or a high-lap GP.  Less cost, more sleep, more 'race time' for the $$.
Saturday:  Races
Sunday:  Races

I run the CCS GP series, so my weekends are a little bit different than the rest of CCS from what I hear;  We have practice on Saturdays all day, then a compressed Race Schedule Sunday all day.

Prices: 
Gas:  I figure $150 in gas for any 'away' race.  (I drive a gas guzzler....  seriously).
Practice Day:  $150
Race Entry:  $155 (entry fees for Superbike and Supersport plus transponder rental and gate fees for a single-race-weeeknd).

[Jason748]

Yea, Shoot me a e-mail a with what you'd like to know and I can let know what I'd recommend, and who to talk to.

[r1owner]

i did my race school
then one trackday (1 day)
then did a 4 race weekend 

I call BS on this one... there is NO WAY you could be as fast as you are without doing at least 3 years of trackdays somewhere Rob!

[PolishPete]

Thanks for the info guys.  Keep it coming.  Anything else I should know.

Jason, you have mail!!

[roadracer162]

Maybe not necessarily jump right into it. You are doing a lot of the right things by asking questionsand getting to know where to go. The practice day before a race-day is very helpful. You will know when you are ready to race.

Some have asked me for advice about become a new rider (street) I ask, "how are you at driving a car". If they answer that they get tickets or crash I give the advice to not even bother. The same goes here. If you are doing well on the tack days, it may be time for you to move onto racing. You won't regret it.

Just know, you won't be the fastest guy oout there. you won't be the fastest beginner to ever grace these race tracks. Everyone won't be standing in te stands watching you, unless you are crashing of course.

Mark

[PolishPete]

Thanks for the response.

I think I'm ready.  Maybe I just thought that "racing" was a much bigger deal than it is?  You guys make it seem like "anyone competent" can do it, and maybe that's the case...I just thought it was WAY more technically involved.  Great info though.  Jason sent me an email too which answers a lot of the questions I had.  Thanks for that Jason.

P.S.  Just read on the WERA forum about some embarassing situations at the track...and driving 7hrs to Blackhawk, trailer loaded and all, forgetting your bike, has got to take the #1 spot!!

[foughtstrong]

Your already investing money on track days.  Take that money and sign up for some races.  Start out with one or two races and see how you feel.  I took the Cornerspeed school at CMP and raced the next day, think I finished close to last but it was a blast.

[truckstop]

Anyone competent *can* race, and it's not really that much more technically involved. You can get your license, do a race or two, do some Friday practices, and if you don't feel ready, at least you have your license. You'll probably benefit from the refresher on all the procedural stuff. I did Learning Curves and then raced the next day, and still had to look stuff up and ask questions ('cos my memory is a sieve).

Trackdays aren't racing, but like others have said, if you're comfortable at trackdays, you'll be fine. One big difference is that trackdays can make some people ultimately slower. If you're following the rules and being considerate with your passing and get ingrained with those habits, you'll have a hard time breaking out of them when you start racing. You should still make clean passes, but passing is definitely more aggressive in racing. There's no six foot rules or only passing on the outside (or whatever the rules are for the level you ride in).

The start of a race is probably one of the things you wont be prepared for, and it's not something you can easily practice. Talk to someone who's good at it about the mechanics of what you should be doing and looking for. My first starts were embarrassing and awful, although it was great to realize that my turd of a bike can actually wheelie.

Cost difference for fees depends on how many races you enter. One STT trackday for a femmoto member is $125 no matter what track I go to. Turns out for racing, I pay $125 if I pre-enter for two races. The CCS fee structure is here. There's a pretty big difference in amount of track time between the two, but the intensity of that time is quite a bit different.
For reference, also the BHF "practice" Fridays are only $95 for a lot of track time.

[Super Dave]

You guys make it seem like "anyone competent" can do it, and maybe that's the case...I just thought it was WAY more technically involved.

LOL!  You haven't met enough racers.  Some aren't competent at all.

Enjoy!  Have fun!