supersport legality???

[Jason748]

    

[Mongo]

Stir all you want, our rules are pretty easy to understand just as CCS' rules are unless you're actively trying to find a way around a rule like 123 is doing.  If his version of OEM parts made any sense then all 600's could use a 1k motor from the same OEM cuz it's all the same right?  Of course all HRC parts are legal too since Honda makes them, same for GYTR stuff from Yamaha....

The biggest issue people have is they don't read the entire rulebook and just choose the parts they like to follow.  Of course they also tend to whine the most when busted and DQ'd.  Weird huh?

[Super Dave]

Well, not everyone whines.  Can't complain when I didn't read them and execute...LOL!

[d-wire]

Mongo, I respect the way both CCS and Wera have their rules.  Just want to make sure Im within the rules.  No playing games here, or I wouldn't be asking what is legal.   

Can't wait for the season to start!

[benprobst]

WERA rules are the simplest of all. If the rule book doesnt tell you "you can do this" then you cant. Kinda hard to mis-interpret that. Some people love it that way, some hate it, to each his own. Im not the biggest fan of the CCS SS rules, but I do appreciate the creativity they force you to use. Though I wish they were just a tiny bit more restrictive, as a talented fabricator can do some silly things to a SS bike to make it many levels above a true SS bike. But thats racin'.

[Garywc]

just make it so the motor has to be stock
since i cant afford to modify the new bikes motor

[123user]

Actually Mongo, you didn't read what I wrote correctly.  A GSXR1000 motor would not be legal because it wasn't the motor type for the application.  No GSXR600 was ever made with a 1000 motor by Suzuki.  OEM means Original Equiptment Manufacture(r).  An oem part would be one that was originally came on that application as delivered from the factory.  I agree that this is a fine point.  SV's were manufactured with both an OEM intake cam and and OEM exhaust cam.  Whether there is an OEM exhaust cam or and OEM intake cam in a particular spot, they are both OEM for that application.

The point is moot because Eric has nixed it, but my argument has validity.  Eric has merely made a less literal interpretation of the rules than I have.

And its not exactly unethical or unsportsmanlike to find a loophole. Finding an advantage is what racing has been about since the motors were horses and the cars were chariots.  BMW has been calling their 1200 motor "air cooled" even though most of the cooling is actually done by the oil cooler.

The rulebook does not specifically spell out that cams must remain in their original locations.  I read the "head" to be that chunk of aluminum with ports and holes.  In other words, the casting.  Eric is interpreting it to be a "head assembly" filled with valves, springs, and cams.  The fact that the valves and cams are mentioned separately from the head the implies that it is, in fact, separate.  I don't agree with his decision, but I can accept his point.

[Sobottka]

Here is the line
6.1.2.E.(3.) Original equipment head, valves, and cams must remain as
produced, with the exception of machining the gasket surface of
the cylinder head.

123user- what part of cams must remain as produced confuses you?

[123user]

Are the cams being reground? Is any metal removed? Are they aftermarket? No, the cams are "as produced" if they're not altered.  Their position has changed, but they are "as produced"

A cam is a piece of iron or steel with bumps on it, the head is a piece of aluminum with holes, the valves are valves, the springs are springs.  The rule does not say the head assembly must remain as produced.  It mentions each individual component, and requires that each individual component remain as produced.

If you interprete the rules to mean "the head assembly", then no, you couldn't swap oem cams.  If you interpret them all individually, then you can.  Eric has interpreted it as the "head assembly".  As far as I'm concerned, Eric has settled the issue.

[Super Dave]

I'm not sure where one would put the extra cams and where the additional cams would come from.  But it certainly isn't as the bike or the component was produced. 

I think it's giving everyone a real laugh at the reach though.

[123user]

If you don't reach, you'll never grab!  Racing has always been about pushing the envelop, whether that envelop is traction, rpm, or the rules.  Creativity is what made the Erion Brothers famous (won them some championships too). 

Sometimes that creativity can go to far, HRC's NR500 is a good example.  Its important to start a productive dialog on creative rules interpretation.  Without that dialog, you end up with a static set of rules.  If you look at WERA's rulebook (and I don't mean the vintage part) you'll see bikes referenced that have not been produced in 20+ years.  I think we all realize that WERA is very inflexible and not open to creative interpretations. 

CCS continues to succeed in the Midwest region (where WERA has failed) because they are inclusive.  I'd say that (in general) CCS encourages new equiptment and creative solutions, but at some point they will put they're foot down... I found that point and started an interesting dialog.

[Mongo]

The intake cam in the exhaust slot is not as the engine was produced by the OEM - therefore the same reasoning you use for the 1k motor not being legal is the same reasoning that makes the cam swap illegal.  The intake cam is not the OEM part for that application.

I do agree on people pushing the envelope on the rules being part of it.  It's my job to make the bikes as equal as possible.

WERA and CCS in the Midwest has to do with a deal Roger was willing to sign with Blackhawk in the 90's and nothing to do with rules sorry.  If you look all over the US racers follow the rules they're given, very very few will refuse to race just because they don't like how a rulebook is structured.