When more HP= quicker laps.

[oh344ccs]

at JenningsGP, Steve Rapp recently set 2 records, 1 on the factory gsxr600, then again on the gsxr1000. 1 second faster with the big bike. However... the record was then lowered AGAIN by 1 second by a 250.. so go figure.. lots of hp can make you faster but the 250 is a small nimble bike. just something for thought..

I think this is a good point.  The lap record for a 750 SS bike at Mid Ohio is a 1:31.179, For a 600SS it ia a 1:30.419  These both held by top level AMA guys I would think that both had their bikes dialed in chassis wise.  That would lead me to believe the ~10hp difference really doesn't mean that much.  And Mid ohio isn't a tight track where Hp couldn't make a difference. 8)

[DanO966]

Okay I'm kinda in the same boat as Baller'.  I'm rather inexperienced and I really have no idea what the hell I'm doing sometimes...;)
Does hp make you faster not really.  Yeah it may drop you lap times a bit cuz you were able to to get a better drive or a faster top speed.  But lets think about this here.  Does it make you faster?  NO, most of the time it'll slow your corner speed down. Why...cuz you were going that much faster in that straight, NOW you have to slow down that much more and most of the time you slow down too much to make the corner.  At a certain level, hell yes hp makes you faster but you have to be able to use it.  But for most of us here if it helps it's very nominal.  But it also depends on what track you're at.  Road America has 3 long straights where horsepower can be very beneficial.  But on the other hand there are guys going low (even high teens) 20s on a 100-110 horsepower bike when Joe Blow is going 32s on his gixxer 1000.  

I think it's mainly in your head.  You think you have a faster bike so therefore you ride faster.  95% of racing is in your head.  How many people do you know who race and are having a problem with their bike?  They *think* the brakes are not working as good as last weekend.  They *think* the suspension isn't working the same as last year.  Whatever, you get my point.  You could walk up to them and go one click more on their rebound, then click it back to where it was when they were *having problems*.  Send them back out and all of a sudden it's fixed.  That's cuz you convinced them you did something to fix the problem.  But the bike is still the same as it was they just *think* the problem was solved.  Yeah sometimes you do have setup problems and they can slow you down.  But I'm just trying to make a point.  
See what I'm getting at, people (I do too) convince themselves that there is something wrong and that's why they are not riding as fast.  Like I said racing, is a huge mental game with yourself!!  Most of the battle is in your head not with so&so in front of you.  Okay I'm getting off of the subject here...sorry.

Okay back to horsepower talk....Let's say you lost a race cuz your bike wasn't as fast as someone else's coming out of the last turn on the white flag lap.  If you had an extra 5-10 hp you may have been able to hold him(or her) off and you could of won the race right.  Okay let's look at this a bit closer.  That's the easy fix more horsepower right.  But what if you carried more corner speed thru that last turn and so & so wasn't able to catch you by the finish.  You just beat someone with a faster bike than you right?  Also if you carried more corner speed throughout the race, then  so & so wouldn't be there ready to pass you in the last turn.  J

I guess what I'm getting at here if you want to go faster, carry more corner speed.  Because when you carry more corner speed you get a better drive out of the corner, you'll be able to reach a higher speed in that straight, and cuz you're carrying more corner speed you don't have to slow down so much when you enter the next corner.  

Let's look at some of the fast lightweights.  There are some SVs going 17s at BHF.  Last time I checked, your standard SV has a heck of a lot less power than a Gixxer 1000.  

Horsepower may be a quick fix but you have to be able to use it to really go faster.
That's my thought on this.  Sorry I got a little involved in this post...

  

I think everyone that 'rolls' upfront (in am/ex repectively) pretty much has their suspension modded and/or sorted out.

Last year I rode my POS R6  w/ stock suspension.  I didn't even set the sag on it.  
But you can bet your house that this year my bike is going to be sorted out.  I can't afford not to racing up in the expert ranks.  I'm gonna get my arse handed to me...lol  :P

[DanO966]

   AND PLEASE, NO THEORIES :-X :-X, let's just look at TESTIMONIES.  Did more power make you faster or not?  Thanks,

Matt

oops bro,
 that's more of a theory than a testimony ;)

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Every improvement I have ever made to my bike has improved lap times.  Suspension, brakes, or HP, it's all good.  Sure, some people have more than they can use, but some bikes really benefit from a little extra steam.  I started with an EX500, and graduated to an FZR400.  Those bikes don't have much to start with.
My best-ever HP mod was flatslides.  I gained 2 seconds per lap with them.  It was a full spectrum change.  The bike pulled out of the corners so hard that the tire was lighting up.  It also pulled TONS harder on top.  I had to rethink my gearing, because I was suddenly into the limiter 3/4 of the way down each straight.  It took a few weekends to learn how to ride the thing and sort out the jetting and gearing, but once I stopped crashing it, the seconds fell away.
On the other hand, I imagine that adding 10 or 20 horses to a GSXR1000 would probably slow most guys down.  Tires and suspension are definetly where it's at, but I'd never turn down a little extra go...

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I started racing in 1996 on the all new '96 GSXR 750. At that time this was the dominate bike on the track and had ample power to make the other guys look like they were missing a spark plug. That year I was one of the only guys that had one in the Midwest region. For both of the years I raced as an amatuer I was using bone stock suspension with no modifications.
     I was defenitely a slow guy my first year, but I had this annoying ability to motor around almost anyone on the straights (most of the time multiple bikes at once), sometimes losing positions in the turns after the straights. The extra horsepower that I had available to me did make my lap times faster than they would have been without the power. But this was not really a true judge of my ability when comparing my lap times to others on slower bikes. For them to do the same lap times as me they had to do alot better in the turns, making them the better riders. While I could get past almost anyone on the straights at that time due to more Hp than the other racers, I lacked in the turns and used the Hp to make up for it. Did this make me the better racer? No. Looking back now the Hp gave me a false sense of achievement when looking at my lap times.
     I think that more Hp will make your lap times faster, but for amatuers it may give them a false sense of achievement when looking at there lap times. I think if you did nothing more than add Hp your lap times may see an immediate improvement, but if your cornering is lacking you'll probably have more of a risk of highsiding due to having to accelerate more than those who carry more speed thru the turns.

[ice]

Power only matters if it can be efficiently transmitted to the road surface.  
Horsepower obviously benefits greatly when the motorcycle is upright an moving down long straights, but extra horsepower can be a bit difficult to manage when trying to accelerate out of a corner at full lean.
Horsepower thus becomes more of a factor at tracks like Road America as the long straights and uphill sections favor strong motors.  I doubt you will ever hear "horsepower doesn't really matter" while racing at Road A.

In my opinion, horsepower is only a bad thing if you can't control it.  It all comes down to throttle control and with a little discipline (practice by doing long wheelies) any additional horsepower that you can get out of a motorcylce will lower your lap times.

[ysr612]

When the gp bikes went to unleaded fuel and there was a drop in hp along with a drop in lap times King Roberts was ask how that could be.

 He said the less hp made the rider keep corner speed and made it easier to control the bike.  He also said that if there are bikes with more hp you need to go to that hp or they kill you coming out of the corners.

in short there is an optimum hp for bike rider combo for lap times and it is diffrent then the optimum for racing.

[james-redsv]

HP only matters on tracks with long straights, like Roebling. On tighter tracks Big HP bikes have a disadvantage. This is my experience, I own a SV650 set up to run in SS class ohlins shock, race tech emulators and springs, I also own a 748 Duc punched out to 800cc. At roebling I can turn a 1.25 on the SV consistantly. On the Duc a 1.22 consistantly, The 3 sec difference is down the front straight, the Duc will top out about 150-155mph, the SV about 130 if I have a tail wind and pray alot. Jennings Gp is a tighter track and a 250 gp bike has the lap record. Just my 2 cents. ;D

[Speedballer347]

For any of my competitors who don't think HP matters.....you don't mind if I pull one of your spark-plug wires, before we pull on the the start-grid, do ya ;D


Heres another personal example Matt:
In March-2002 (sat/early sunday) my 01/600 was making about 105-107HP.  
I feel comfortable dialing in throttle on exit pretty hard, so if I didn't get you on the way in, I was probably gonna get you on the way out.
March-2002(mid-sunday), my frame breaks and motor explodes.

We rebuild the motor, and all of a sudden it's making 92HP ??? (150pounds compression ??? )
Broken steering head meant I had to brake very 'lite/early' and also enter the turns lightly; couldn't stress the front-end.  
So lap times go from 'X' to 'Y'.
OK.

Like I said earlier, one of my strengths (in amateur, anyway) was hard corner exits.  And, the broken steering-head did NOT affect my exits (only affected braking/entrance/corners/bumps).
Running Y lap times dicing w/ other riders running Y lap times, I could not get past on exit.  Even though I was spooling up the rear faster than them, and actually pulling alongside them on exit, as soon as the bikes would go vertical...they would pull back in front.  I am talking about 100HP bone-stock 600's (even a POS F4 did this, and was giving me 'fits' to get around).
Had I had 'normal/equal' (100)HP (and still running identically in the coners/brakes), I would have been able to complete my exit passes on the same riders (running Y lap times)....and my 'near' exit passes show this.
So a disadvantage in HP, kept me from passing on exit, even though I was 'better/faster' on exit.

Maybe jumping from a 600 to a Literbike is one thing, but adding 5-10HP to your rear-wheel cannot hurt your lap times (unless you've got too much HP already)....imho.

[Speedballer347]

and Ice is right about the wheelies (sorry haterz  :P ).
If you can truely 'Balance' a bike on the rear wheel for a great distance....you have as good throttle-control (or better) than any of your competitors.

DanO or Omni...can I get a 'Amen!' ;D

[bfkidd]

I think that having more horsepower than the next guy just makes you a lazy racer. Let's face it, if you pass a guy on the straight, then you aren't going to learn how to get him in a certain corner.

The goal should be to at least have what everyone else has. If your bike is a turd then you probably won't do good. But if your bike is too fast then it is a crutch and you won't learn anything.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

         I was defenitely a slow guy, but I had this annoying ability to motor around almost anyone on the straights (most of the time multiple bikes at once), sometimes losing positions in the turns after the straights. The extra horsepower that I had available to me did make my lap times faster than they would have been without the power. But this was not really a true judge of my ability when comparing my lap times to others on slower bikes. For them to do the same lap times as me they had to do alot better in the turns, making them the better riders. While I could get past almost anyone on the straights at that time due to more Hp than the other racers, I lacked in the turns and used the Hp to make up for it.

As I read this, I keep seeing the # 113 in my mind.  Edgar?  Did you change your login name? ;D