amateur on liter bike

[DavidV]

I have over a year of experience racing (600's) and about 2 years doing trackdays. I am a middle of the pack amateur racer for the most part.

I want to try a liter bike next year, just for fun mostly  If so, which one would you choose to race? It seems like 90% of the bikes are gsxr 1k's.  Is there anything I should know about the older R1's or Zx10's? (ie; Scary power delivery etc.)

PS: Has anyone here actually gotten faster going from a 600 to literbike? I know it's usually the other way around, but I am not starting on a literbike

Thanks

[Court Jester]

i did better on my R1 than my 600's. i think it was just the fact that i was more comfortable with it. i like the 03 R1 better than the 05 gsxr1000 for what little that's worth. but normally a 600 or 750 will do better than a 1000.

[tstruyk]

i'd say most folks find they go faster on slower bikes... relatively speaking.

I cant personally say I know anyone that has "figured it out" by going to larger displacement bikes, ymmv.  You "should" finish higher with less competion... what are you trying to accomplish?

[Super Dave]

Tires.  How much of a tire budget do you have is usually my concern.  A liter bike ridden well can use up a rear tire in a period shorter than a CCS sprint race. 

Can a rider go faster on a liter four compared to a 600?  Yes, a good rider should be able to go a little faster on a smaller track.  A track that has some longer sections will allow a rider on a 1000 to reduce lap times.

The GSXR's are common.  There are a lot of parts available, with some parts being common with the other Suzuki's.  Seems like the Honda's have been the least powerful in ways.  Not sure if that helps you.

[benprobst]

I would say its all about tires. I was a fast lw rider, and on my superbike sv I could barely get a rear tire to last 3 sprint races on an even slighty abbrasive track. They would lose traction for any number of reasons, overheating, rubber loss, etc.... I thought that was pretty bad. However, at relaxed trackday pace and practice I could get 2 days out of a rear. Now that im done with the lw bikes, I bought a 750 to finally get rid of most my weight disadvantage. I rode the thing for a trackday a few weekends ago, and DESTROYED a rear tire and a half, the set up wasnt perfect yet so I was getting a little premature tearing with a too soft rear spring, but not bad really. Anyway, I expect to use about 3 rear tires a weekend next year, if I can get one to carry over to the next weekend for practice. If your willing to put that much money into rear tires and have some experience on the big bikes, then I bet you could have some fun. If not than I think theres a good chance you will have a better time racing a smaller bike and you may even last longer not spending 5 thousand dollars a year on tires. Also, dont base to much of your decision on the info provided via this wonderful series of tubes known as the interwebs, do whats best for you, your budjet, and your racing career.

[gonecrazy]

I have been riding a 1000rr the past to years, and they are a handfull and alot more work to get them slowed down and turned. But yes it is a blast to ride. this year I am going to a 600, much easier to handle and still a crap load of fun.

[ronhix]

I'll be racing a liter bike as an amateur next season in the MW, what region are you in?

[DavidV]

thanks for the responses.  As far as what i want to accomplish: I'd like to go for a top 5 in the heavyweight class this year. I think that is a reasonable goal for me..  I am ready to spend whatever money necessary for tires, I at least want to try a liter bike. If I find it isn't for me, I will get rid of it.  But I hear what you're saying Ben.

I am caught between the 05 gsxr 1000, 04-05 R1 and 06-07 ZX10. Why do most choose the GSXRs? Because of the reasons Dave said? (readily available parts?)   I am leaning towards the R1 or GSXR.   Ron I race MA region. Also, I have no experience with big bikes on the street or track. I feel that I have enough overall track experience however, to at least give it a try.

Thanks again

[tstruyk]

cheater... 

you mean unlimited class...

good luck to ya.  Showing up and racing every weekend will get you close to the top 5 for the season.  Top 5 every weekend will win you a championship or 3...

[ronhix]

I think they are all good bikes David.  As for me I love my big GSXR.  Try and ride a few of them if you can and see which you prefer.  Hope you have great season!

[DavidV]

thanks fellas. Yes I meant unlimited.  See ya next season

[red900]

I dont know why everyone seems to think the liter bikes eat tires.   Properly set up suspension will go a long way for your tires.  I ran toward the front of the pack and I could make a set of tires last 3 sprint races if I wanted.  I typically only ran two races on a set, but weekends when I could not afford a new set or when the pirelli guy was not at the track, I ran another race on my used tires.   Maybe as a guy that ran a full season on a liter bike I can help.  The liter bike WILL NOT MAKE YOU FASTER.  Yes, you will get to the braking zone quicker, but unless you are fearless, you will start braking sooner than you would on a smaller bike, just because of the crazy closing speeds.  Wielding a 1000 is fun, but it takes a certain kinda guy to make it really work for you.  I guess you wont really know if you are that kinda guy until you saddle one up.....

I prefer the Gsxr's.   But I sure would love to try a new 08 ZX10 with traction control...

[DavidV]

Thanks for the response. You say you ran two races on one set of tires. did that include practice? 

[benprobst]

I dont know why everyone seems to think the liter bikes eat tires.   Properly set up suspension will go a long way for your tires.  I ran toward the front of the pack and I could make a set of tires last 3 sprint races if I wanted.  I typically only ran two races on a set, but weekends when I could not afford a new set or when the pirelli guy was not at the track, I ran another race on my used tires.   Maybe as a guy that ran a full season on a liter bike I can help.  The liter bike WILL NOT MAKE YOU FASTER.  Yes, you will get to the braking zone quicker, but unless you are fearless, you will start braking sooner than you would on a smaller bike, just because of the crazy closing speeds.  Wielding a 1000 is fun, but it takes a certain kinda guy to make it really work for you.  I guess you wont really know if you are that kinda guy until you saddle one up.....

I prefer the Gsxr's.   But I sure would love to try a new 08 ZX10 with traction control...

Maybe we arent motorcycle riding gods like you, ohh great medium fast amatuer of the universe.

[smite1]

Maybe we arent motorcycle riding gods like you, ohh great medium fast amatuer of the universe.

Well look here... we got all the balls in the world man!

[DavidV]

LMAO^

[Ducati23]

Big bikes = yum yum tires...  $$$$$$

[roadracer162]

In my opinion big bikes are for Experts. If you have the talent to ride one of those and ride it well, one should not be an Amateur.

Background; Street riding for 28 years. Racing for 4 years, 2 as an amateur and 2 as an Expert. I race on what I consider a Lightweight bike but not to many others. Being that it is a 17 year old bike and water-cooled it will only qualify for Thunderbike and LW F40. Won the 2 AM Regional Champisonhips in 2005 and 1 EX Regional Championship in 2007. Faster than some, slower than many.

Mark

[red900]

Thanks for the response. You say you ran two races on one set of tires. did that include practice? 

Yes, two races easily sometimes three if needed.  No, that does not include practice.  I would usually just leave the tires I ran in the last race on the bike, and run them in the practice at the following race.   

[red900]

Maybe we arent motorcycle riding gods like you, ohh great medium fast amatuer of the universe.

Merry Christmas....

[JBraun]

Maybe we arent motorcycle riding gods like you, ohh great medium fast amatuer of the universe.

Trying to decide if I missed the smiley here.

I don't understand why Dustin raced the whole year as an amateur, because he's fast enough to win expert races. But that's his deal.
I'd bet however, that he'd put his stack of am national and regional championship trophies next to yours or anyone's.
Interesting since he's not the guy calling himself "fast"...

[funsizeracing]

Buy an SV    I could get at least 2 trackdays and a full weekend (4 races) out of a set of tires.

Besides it's way more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow!

[Court Jester]

Sounds like i need an SV

[khanson]

I've got a few words for riding a 1000......EVIL and broken bones!!!!

For 99% of riders a 1000 will teach how to pass people really fast on a straightaway, break way too early and be scared to get on the throttle coming out of a turn.  An SV650 or 600 forces you to ride better.....isn't that what we are after.

The problem with a 1000 is they seemed pretty mellow at 85%, however to really ride one fast it is a beast that simply wants to kill you!  I know, I rode them at the AMA level for a couple of years and pounded myself into the ground learning how to ride one.  After 2 years, I finally felt like I was really learning how to ride one about the same time I stopped racing.  They aren't forgiving is the problem.

Case in point, you have the thing leaned over on your knee and you crack the throttle back open....you now have 120hp instantly while leaned over on your knee!  Thats why people highside themselves.

Plus....better have a huge tire budget. Riding a 1000 hard you will get about 12 laps on a new rear tire before it starts to drop off.

Honestly, I enjoyed riding an SV650 or my Ducati more when I was racing because it was a lot less stressful.  It's a blast learning how to push the front around on an SV and it's teaching you how to ride faster.  Can't do it on a 1000 without hitting the ground a lot.

Just my .02cents.