No Roebling Road in 2008 ???

Started by BERZERKER, December 19, 2007, 10:07:34 PM

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rogers1323

But what about those people who show up at a non crowded event and wins, and then doesn't come to any other races.  They deserve a championship just b/c they have a perfect performance index?

rogers1323

Quote from: Z-man on December 28, 2007, 12:53:50 PM
Showing up is the most important part?  Then I guess I have it all backwards, I thought finding ways to encourage larger grids and more competition were pretty important,  and bringing more talent to run a full series so skills were rated higher then showing up were also important.  Showing up is obviously important, but aren't we racing, so shouldn't skills be rated higher then someone showing up and finishing each race in the bottom half and still being able to win a championship?  I don't think the sport is called Road Showing Up, it is called Road Racing so shouldn't racing be the most important part?

Z

I completely understand what you're saying.  But you are looking at it from the perspective of the race org trying to make money and keep entries up.  I'm talking about the idea of competition and how championships are determined in racing all around the world.  Yes, the faster people deserve the championships, but if they care about winning them, then they have to show up to race.  That is why showing up is the most important part.  Look at any professional level racing anywhere.  The guy that finishes 2nd or 3rd in every race will beat the guy who wins half the races, but either doesn't show up or DNF's multiple races.  That's just the way it works.

If people are finishing in the bottom half of their races and still winning championships it is because the people who are faster than them either aren't willing or able to show up to the races.  Why should those who do show up be punished for that?  And what you're advocating would be the equivalent of doing a skills test and then not making those people actually compete simply because they are the most talented.  Tell me the last time a professional champion won a championship and just skipped a round.

bambam

 one thing about grading the points differently based on grid size is that it then rewards people who can pre-enter for the whole season in january because they then are on the front row at every weekend. if you cannot do that for work or family reasons and start from the second or third wave then you have alot more people to pass and a harder time winning races. shouldnt those racers get a better points index because they passed more riders? the index should be weighted to reward a racer fro the place they finish in relationship to where they started.
if rider a  pre enters and grids pos 1 and finishs18th or 20th and rider b post enters and grids pos 40 and finishes 19th he has passed more people and should get more points than someone who got passed by 20 people.

roadracer162

#27
Can I add my take it of this thread to the mix?

This is club racing. We (a bunch of guys) decided to show up at a track a do what we like doing. Each of us have put some money into the pot and elected someone else to organize it for us. This is a hobby for me cause I could never make enough money doing this to support my lifestyle. Racing in CCS just won't make me the money that my current salary pays. I am no millionaire.

I won 5 of the 10 races that I competed in. I am not the fastest of the group but I have had better results. I have pre-entered but many times have started behind the folks that I beat in that race. In my last Am year I would start dead last but pass the field and finish up front making it into the Ex field.

I believe that CCS is a good program for what I want to do with racing. I am never gonna have the National glory of AMA or ASRA for that matter. For thsoe really talented folks, there is always AMA.

Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

fatboy122

Quote from: roadracer22 on December 29, 2007, 08:44:20 AM
Can I add my take it of this thread to the mix?

This is club racing. We (a bunch of gys) decided to show up at a track a do what we like doing. Each of us have put some money into the pot and elected someone elase to organize it for us. This is a hobby for me cause I could never make enough money doing this to support my lifestyle. Racing in CCS just won't make me the money that my current salary pays. I am no millionaire.

I won 5 of the 10 races that I competed in. I am not the fastest of the group but I have had better results. I have pre-entered but many times have started behind the folks that I beat in that race. In my last Am year I would start dead last but pass the field and finish up front making it into the Ex field.

I believe that CCS is a good program for what I want to do with racing. I am never gonna have the National glory of AMA or ASRA for that matter. For thsoe really talented folks, there is always AMA.

Mark
I totally agree with this..but i also agree that the performance index calculations should also be calculated with one's starting position in mind..i started a few races this past year either in the 2nd wave or 3rd wave and actually won a couple of those and had a few top 3's, you would think that my performance index would have increased significantly but it didnt..thats my .02 worth

Z-man

Quote from: rogers1323 on December 28, 2007, 03:05:23 PM
I completely understand what you're saying.  But you are looking at it from the perspective of the race org trying to make money and keep entries up.  I'm talking about the idea of competition and how championships are determined in racing all around the world.  Yes, the faster people deserve the championships, but if they care about winning them, then they have to show up to race.  That is why showing up is the most important part.  Look at any professional level racing anywhere.  The guy that finishes 2nd or 3rd in every race will beat the guy who wins half the races, but either doesn't show up or DNF's multiple races.  That's just the way it works.

If people are finishing in the bottom half of their races and still winning championships it is because the people who are faster than them either aren't willing or able to show up to the races.  Why should those who do show up be punished for that?  And what you're advocating would be the equivalent of doing a skills test and then not making those people actually compete simply because they are the most talented.  Tell me the last time a professional champion won a championship and just skipped a round.

I don't disagree with your last statement, I'm just looking for ways to make the series more accessable to more riders and therefore have more riders compete in a series and fill up the grids more and make for better competition.  If my profession was racing, of course it would be critical to make every race because my livelihood depended on it.  With club racing we all have families and outside jobs which are very important.  My suggestion is to consider ways to enable more riders to compete in a full series, but taking your point into consideration perhaps not make it so easy that a racer could show up to half the events and win a series.  Perhaps consider a happy medium somewhere.

CCS #79 EX

2007 Sponsors
Speedwerks, Team Pro-Motion, Martinmoto.com, Turner Landscaping, CTR, Redline Motorsports, Oxtar, Pirelli, Amsoil, LP, Vortex

Garywc

maybe the thats what the summit point and other track championships are for.
although then its run every class you can there also. get a light weight bike and run your 600 in every other class

but then again who cares i am not a champion and probably never will be.. but i will go race and if i stop having fun racing then i will find something else to do with my time
CCS/ASRA #77
AMA #776
http://www.eastcoastsupertwins.com
Monmouth Cycles,Woodcraft, bel-ray,AXO

roadracer162

Quote from: Garywc on December 31, 2007, 12:38:05 PM
maybe the thats what the summit point and other track championships are for.
although then its run every class you can there also. get a light weight bike and run your 600 in every other class

But isn't that what the race promoter wants? I would if I were one. I would want each person to enter every race just to pay the bills of the series.

Sadly, my budget and aerobic capacity cannot do that. I will leave that to the "Ironman" of this beloved racing.

Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

RC423

I'll just be happy if Dave shuts up and actually shows up for some races :)

back on topic....I want to race Roebling :(

minus my crash(es) there 2 years ago I love the track and its soo nice now that it's paved....I'd rather race there earlier in the season...to take advantage of the warm weather and avoid the 110 degree heat that we usually see there....

On a side note...I find it amusing watching k and company chase people in the golf cart and attempt to fine them for running there engines during the "fucking quiet time"...for the nearby church (direct quote via 2006)

carry on

Ross
aka Ross aka "Pete"

Garywc

don't worry Ross ,Dave is going to make special appearances at some races this season wit his secret weapon
CCS/ASRA #77
AMA #776
http://www.eastcoastsupertwins.com
Monmouth Cycles,Woodcraft, bel-ray,AXO

yetidave

Quote from: Garywc on January 02, 2008, 11:51:30 AM
don't worry Ross ,Dave is going to make special appearances at some races this season wit his secret weapon

His 14" dildo?

Z-man

Yeah, it is so secret I don't even know what it is.  Ross I'm hoping for 3 Summits and both VIR's this year, perhaps one or two of the WERA VIR's.

I do however like Dave E's suggestion, has that worked out well for you in the past?
CCS #79 EX

2007 Sponsors
Speedwerks, Team Pro-Motion, Martinmoto.com, Turner Landscaping, CTR, Redline Motorsports, Oxtar, Pirelli, Amsoil, LP, Vortex