No Roebling Road in 2008 ???

[BERZERKER]

did I miss something or has the usual June 2 day event at RRR a thing of the past ?

[stickboy274]

I was wondering the same thing. I like that track.

Last year I spent three weeks there in a row with all the bike stuff. It was nice to just park my trailer and drive home without it. Then everything was set up for the next weekend already  when I showed up

[CORNBREAD]

I was wanting to try it out since they repaved it and haven't had the chance. I know that WERA has it on thier schd.  so I hope that CCS will put it on there sometime.

[Garywc]

the track was great after the repave
but it was just as much fun before it was repaved
its a little over a 12 hour drive for me and i would try to make it there this year too if CCS adds it to the schedule

[rogers1323]

Not gonna happen.  The sold our date to WERA by mistake.  Someone posted who had talked to Eric and he said that it wasn't worth it based on previous turnouts to try to do it the weekend just before or after WERA was there.

This is based on my memory and someone else speaking to Eric, but it's the situation from what I know.

[Garywc]

well maybe next season they might go back there
although the turn out wasn't that big the last 2 years which were when i was there
it is still a cool track and i would recommend CCS racer should make the trip at least once

[stickboy274]

That bites, but I can understand.

[apriliaman]

thats one of my favorite tracks and always do good there.

[chaplain220]

I very much enjoyed that track as well, beautiful after the repave.  Best as I can tell, its the only one I havent wrecked at yet.  The cats, however, make T4 a little bit of a challenge.  Oh, and dont ever let the owner folks catch ya with one of the parking lot timbers moved out of its original spot, they'll cuss ya like a sailor.

[cardzilla]

Great, the last manly track in the SE and now IT'S off the schedule too?  VIR is great, but it's a long haul for me and the prospect of racing at Moroso or Jennings bores me to tears.  Can someone try to get Road Atlanta back or is that a pipe dream?

I don't quite understand why (if RRR sold the preferred date to WERA) we can't move to a later date in the year... or even the old pre-Daytona time slot?

[garrettrick]

i was dissapointed when i saw that as well. its a fun track !

[fatboy122]

Roebling is awesome after the repaving for sure..surely someone will have a race there?

[rogers1323]

Wera is going there several times, including the weekend in June that CCS usually has it.  I might actually go there twice with WERA next year. 

[stickboy274]

While were at it, what about little Tally?

[yetidave]

Very cool track but the people running it are some of the biggest a-holes I've ever encountered.

[cbusa]

The southeast schedule is awful this year. Why do we keep losing races? Roebling has often run close to WERA. I always look forward to RRR.

[Garywc]

if we are loosing a track such as RRR we should get a new that we haven't had its only fair

[Z-man]

The southeast schedule is awful this year. Why do we keep losing races? Roebling has often run close to WERA. I always look forward to RRR.

I'm going to speculate turn out.  Daytona, Roebling, Carolina and Barber are all very far to be considered mid atlantic (well 3 of 4 are very far) and having been to all those races in 2006.  Carolina had grids of 10-20 tops, Roebling, I got wood for just finishing one lap, the turnout was so low.

Tough to make all those far away dates and if you aren't going to all the races,  you aren't competing to win a championship, you don't have to win races to win championships you have to show up and finish in the top half, I won two championships in '06 and never won a race.  I think these low turnout races can hurt more then they help (Shenandoah also).  You miss a far away race (or crash) and all of a sudden you are out of the points, why bother killing yourself to make all the other far ones if the hopes of any type of championship is in the toliet. 

I do like the way some of our dirt counterparts run their series.  Best 10 races out of 13, this gives incentive to goto all the races to improve your points but also doesn't leave you out in the cold when your wife tells you her cousin is getting married on a double points weekend  and you have run out of excuses having blown off the last two family weddings and she is leaving you if you miss another one.  I also think this would help improve turnouts at most tracks and would mean more money coming into CCS because more then 3-5 guys would run a full series each year. 

Just my 2 cents.
Z

[Garywc]

Dave are you trying to make sense?

[cbusa]

I can understand the turnout issue. It's frustrating to lose events year after year.

Maybe CCS should abandon the SE Division, that would make more sense if barber is considered mid Atlantic what is the point of having a SE.

[Z-man]

Dave are you trying to make sense?

I think I made sense, just a suggestion to help improve the series turnout overall and take steps to get away from the ability to buy a championship by just showing up.  I took a quick look through the points totals in the Mid Atlantic and South East divisions and not to take anything away from the guys who won championships but in the Mid Atlantic region 9 of 18 Expert classes were won by guys with below a 610 point performance index.  3 Expert classes were won with less then a 500 point index.  3 classes were won by guys not finishing in the top half on average.

In the Southeast division there were 7 Expert classes won by guys with below a 610 performance index and 3 Expert classes were won buy guys with less then 500.

This is not meant as a dig but as constructive criticism of how those numbers can improve and help strengthen the organization and help more guys run the full series.

I told Eric I only had one soapbox to stand on regarding Shanendoah, sorry after this I will keep my mouth shut and wait for the season to start, I love racing with CCS and just wish it was easier to run the full series.

Z

[rogers1323]

I agree about $$ and travel time etc to run the whole series in a region.  However, I think the more important question is why are we trying to make it easier for fast guys to win a championship without showing up to all the rounds?  It has always been the case in racing that showing up is the most important part.  I don't think this should be any different.  If you want to look at changing some of this, then make a greater point disparity between each finishing position.  Don't let people drop entire rounds from counting, b/c that will let people who do really care about winning the championship not show up to a couple rounds that they would if the points counted.

[Z-man]

  However, I think the more important question is why are we trying to make it easier for fast guys to win a championship without showing up to all the rounds?  It has always been the case in racing that showing up is the most important part. 

Showing up is the most important part?  Then I guess I have it all backwards, I thought finding ways to encourage larger grids and more competition were pretty important,  and bringing more talent to run a full series so skills were rated higher then showing up were also important.  Showing up is obviously important, but aren't we racing, so shouldn't skills be rated higher then someone showing up and finishing each race in the bottom half and still being able to win a championship?  I don't think the sport is called Road Showing Up, it is called Road Racing so shouldn't racing be the most important part?

Z

[Garywc]

how about if they just used the performance index to determine the champions rather then adjust points with the index
or something along those lines would that work out ?

so if you were able to win at crowded events you would have a good index as compared to some one who wins at less crowded events and doesnt do so well when its crowded?

[rogers1323]

But what about those people who show up at a non crowded event and wins, and then doesn't come to any other races.  They deserve a championship just b/c they have a perfect performance index?

[rogers1323]

Showing up is the most important part?  Then I guess I have it all backwards, I thought finding ways to encourage larger grids and more competition were pretty important,  and bringing more talent to run a full series so skills were rated higher then showing up were also important.  Showing up is obviously important, but aren't we racing, so shouldn't skills be rated higher then someone showing up and finishing each race in the bottom half and still being able to win a championship?  I don't think the sport is called Road Showing Up, it is called Road Racing so shouldn't racing be the most important part?

Z

I completely understand what you're saying.  But you are looking at it from the perspective of the race org trying to make money and keep entries up.  I'm talking about the idea of competition and how championships are determined in racing all around the world.  Yes, the faster people deserve the championships, but if they care about winning them, then they have to show up to race.  That is why showing up is the most important part.  Look at any professional level racing anywhere.  The guy that finishes 2nd or 3rd in every race will beat the guy who wins half the races, but either doesn't show up or DNF's multiple races.  That's just the way it works.

If people are finishing in the bottom half of their races and still winning championships it is because the people who are faster than them either aren't willing or able to show up to the races.  Why should those who do show up be punished for that?  And what you're advocating would be the equivalent of doing a skills test and then not making those people actually compete simply because they are the most talented.  Tell me the last time a professional champion won a championship and just skipped a round.

[bambam]

 one thing about grading the points differently based on grid size is that it then rewards people who can pre-enter for the whole season in january because they then are on the front row at every weekend. if you cannot do that for work or family reasons and start from the second or third wave then you have alot more people to pass and a harder time winning races. shouldnt those racers get a better points index because they passed more riders? the index should be weighted to reward a racer fro the place they finish in relationship to where they started.
if rider a  pre enters and grids pos 1 and finishs18th or 20th and rider b post enters and grids pos 40 and finishes 19th he has passed more people and should get more points than someone who got passed by 20 people.

[roadracer162]

Can I add my take it of this thread to the mix?

This is club racing. We (a bunch of guys) decided to show up at a track a do what we like doing. Each of us have put some money into the pot and elected someone else to organize it for us. This is a hobby for me cause I could never make enough money doing this to support my lifestyle. Racing in CCS just won't make me the money that my current salary pays. I am no millionaire.

I won 5 of the 10 races that I competed in. I am not the fastest of the group but I have had better results. I have pre-entered but many times have started behind the folks that I beat in that race. In my last Am year I would start dead last but pass the field and finish up front making it into the Ex field.

I believe that CCS is a good program for what I want to do with racing. I am never gonna have the National glory of AMA or ASRA for that matter. For thsoe really talented folks, there is always AMA.

Mark

[fatboy122]

Can I add my take it of this thread to the mix?

This is club racing. We (a bunch of gys) decided to show up at a track a do what we like doing. Each of us have put some money into the pot and elected someone elase to organize it for us. This is a hobby for me cause I could never make enough money doing this to support my lifestyle. Racing in CCS just won't make me the money that my current salary pays. I am no millionaire.

I won 5 of the 10 races that I competed in. I am not the fastest of the group but I have had better results. I have pre-entered but many times have started behind the folks that I beat in that race. In my last Am year I would start dead last but pass the field and finish up front making it into the Ex field.

I believe that CCS is a good program for what I want to do with racing. I am never gonna have the National glory of AMA or ASRA for that matter. For thsoe really talented folks, there is always AMA.

Mark

I totally agree with this..but i also agree that the performance index calculations should also be calculated with one's starting position in mind..i started a few races this past year either in the 2nd wave or 3rd wave and actually won a couple of those and had a few top 3's, you would think that my performance index would have increased significantly but it didnt..thats my .02 worth

[Z-man]

I completely understand what you're saying.  But you are looking at it from the perspective of the race org trying to make money and keep entries up.  I'm talking about the idea of competition and how championships are determined in racing all around the world.  Yes, the faster people deserve the championships, but if they care about winning them, then they have to show up to race.  That is why showing up is the most important part.  Look at any professional level racing anywhere.  The guy that finishes 2nd or 3rd in every race will beat the guy who wins half the races, but either doesn't show up or DNF's multiple races.  That's just the way it works.

If people are finishing in the bottom half of their races and still winning championships it is because the people who are faster than them either aren't willing or able to show up to the races.  Why should those who do show up be punished for that?  And what you're advocating would be the equivalent of doing a skills test and then not making those people actually compete simply because they are the most talented.  Tell me the last time a professional champion won a championship and just skipped a round.

I don't disagree with your last statement, I'm just looking for ways to make the series more accessable to more riders and therefore have more riders compete in a series and fill up the grids more and make for better competition.  If my profession was racing, of course it would be critical to make every race because my livelihood depended on it.  With club racing we all have families and outside jobs which are very important.  My suggestion is to consider ways to enable more riders to compete in a full series, but taking your point into consideration perhaps not make it so easy that a racer could show up to half the events and win a series.  Perhaps consider a happy medium somewhere.

[Garywc]

maybe the thats what the summit point and other track championships are for.
although then its run every class you can there also. get a light weight bike and run your 600 in every other class

but then again who cares i am not a champion and probably never will be.. but i will go race and if i stop having fun racing then i will find something else to do with my time

[roadracer162]

maybe the thats what the summit point and other track championships are for.
although then its run every class you can there also. get a light weight bike and run your 600 in every other class

But isn't that what the race promoter wants? I would if I were one. I would want each person to enter every race just to pay the bills of the series.

Sadly, my budget and aerobic capacity cannot do that. I will leave that to the "Ironman" of this beloved racing.

Mark

[RC423]

I'll just be happy if Dave shuts up and actually shows up for some races :)

back on topic....I want to race Roebling :(

minus my crash(es) there 2 years ago I love the track and its soo nice now that it's paved....I'd rather race there earlier in the season...to take advantage of the warm weather and avoid the 110 degree heat that we usually see there....

On a side note...I find it amusing watching k and company chase people in the golf cart and attempt to fine them for running there engines during the "fucking quiet time"...for the nearby church (direct quote via 2006)

carry on

Ross

[Garywc]

don't worry Ross ,Dave is going to make special appearances at some races this season wit his secret weapon

[yetidave]

don't worry Ross ,Dave is going to make special appearances at some races this season wit his secret weapon

His 14" dildo?

[Z-man]

Yeah, it is so secret I don't even know what it is.  Ross I'm hoping for 3 Summits and both VIR's this year, perhaps one or two of the WERA VIR's.

I do however like Dave E's suggestion, has that worked out well for you in the past?

[Garywc]

yes that is true Dave doesnt even know
i was making that part up but he will be racing

[yetidave]

Yeah, it is so secret I don't even know what it is.  Ross I'm hoping for 3 Summits and both VIR's this year, perhaps one or two of the WERA VIR's.

I do however like Dave E's suggestion, has that worked out well for you in the past?

Mixed results. Ask Gary.

[MELK-MAN]

I am bummed that this track wont be on the ccs schedule.. totally bummed.

[banzai1]

It appears that if you want to race at RRR, you'll be racing WERA.

[cardzilla]

So is CCS even working to attempt to replace the date with another one, or is it an absolute done deal.... I need to know if I should get my WERA license or not.  I miss the days of 3 Roebling dates in one year :(

[fatboy122]

Does anyone know why we arent going to RRR this season?

[Gixxerblade]

There is an issue of TBD on the schedule. Maybe we will make Roabling. I for one would love to run there. I never have and it seems like nicer track now that it's re-paved. At any rate I am with ZMan. I am going to at least do both VIR's and about 3 Summit's this year and call it a season. I am no millionaire, not by a long shot, and am never going to be a class champ. I do this for fun. Sorry if the fast guys can't physically show up for every race that's the breaks.