Moto ST

[Garywc]

You have the bike in the avatar.   

I'm riding for you.  But you have to feed Ivan.

yes that one of my street bikes

[123user]

I guess you didn't have one of your races moved at RA.  A few guys actually couldn't stick around to run their saturday races on sunday.  Some family/crew people had to find another way home because of this. 

RA had something like 1200 entries this year, how many were a result of Moto-ST is probably difficult to figure, but I bet there'd still be 1100 without Moto-ST.  Basically, Moto-ST ate up 6 hours of track time... that could be 6 hours of practice time for club racers.  The fact is: the RA twin-sprint weekend is pretty busy without something else to fill the time.  As a racer, I object to having my races and practices shortened year-after-year.  I'd gladly pay more to have full 8 lap sprints and my full share of practice. 

With Daytona, its even worse.  You HAVE to sign up for the trackday to get any worthwhile practice.  All that's really been done is shifting the cost of practice.  Instead of paying more for races ($100 instead of $120) you have to pay $150 and use another vacation day for a thursday track day.  In the end, the cost is the same and the hassle is more.  Its just been re-packaged to give the appearance of savings.

Before Daytona, I asked the CCS staff if Moto-ST was paying for a third of the track rental, since thats how much tracktime they used.  I couldn't get a straight answer... this leads me to believe that Moto-ST (and their riders) are getting a better deal on track time than CCS or me.

I guess my point is this:  Moto-ST has more money to spend than CCS (or me).  They should be paying their fair share!  After all, its CCS that organizes all the track schedule, events, and crew.  At the very least, Moto-ST should pay the pro-rated amount for track time and also be charged a fee for CCS organizing the weekend.  In the end, CCS may end up money ahead with the combined events but the majority of club racers are getting screwed.

If you want to talk about risk management, that's a different.  The way I see it, the liability increases when more races are stuffed into the same amount of time.  It also increases when "professional" races are being held.  Large purses increase the competition level- also increasing the risk of serious accidents.  (See my note about a little greed going a long way) Plus, since the France family is extremely wealthy, its a safe bet that they'll have better/well connect legal council...  that'd leave CCS-Fort Worth holding the bag.  Basically, Moto-ST adds only 30 racers to the events and adds significantly more risk than their paying for.  Further, its a safe bet that CCS is the first name on track rental agreement (if Moto-ST is on it at all)  CCS is assuming most of the liability.

[Super Dave]

Good points.  I wasn't one that had a race moved.  I have been at Road America CCS races when ASRA/FUSA, CCS national races, have caused CCS regional races to be moved from Saturday to Sunday.  I recognize that, but I don't think it's because of MotoST.

Four laps at Road America is "short".  However, it's sixteen miles.  Recognize that CCS sprint races have a distance.  With Road America being 4.1 miles, four laps fits the bill.  At other tracks, it's eight, at some, six. 

Practice sucks.  Yeah, that's nothing new. 

I'm personally unsure of blaming MotoST for taking away six hours of CCS racing time as I thought the time MotoST was on track was later than normal.  MotoST on Saturday was after all the qualifying, USGPRU (more added stuff) included, and a full schedule of CCS races.  MotoST again was on after the CCS stuff on Sunday.  I don't think CCS would have had more races or laps even if there was more time for it.

I'm not on CCS's side all the time.  I know Kevin and Eric will attest to that, and others too(don't forget, I don't work for CCS at all...I just have had a CCS license like others, but I've had mine for a while longer).  But honestly, it was one of the better Road America events that I've seen from CCS. 

Wasn't as big as 2001 where there were 2025 entries.  I think that's the number that still stands as the record.  Either way, MotoST will be with AHRMA for 2008 at Road America.

[123user]

I'm just trying to relay the opinion that everything isn't perfect between CCS and Moto-ST.  All the public publicity I've seen is overwhelming good, however I know from my experience that the relationship hasn't been the best for the average racer.  These boards may seem trivial, but often they're the last source of behind the scenes truth.

I'm a little disappointed with RRW coverage of Moto-St events.  They're supposed to be the unbiased news source for roadracing, but I've seen nothing to indicate the problems these combined weekends have had.  Since they compete in Moto-ST their vision has become blurry on the facts.  I think we all realize the stranglehold NASCAR has on its publicity- I suspect the same thing is going on here.  The France family has got propaganda down pat

I saw that Moto-ST is pairing with AHRMA this year.  I'm curious to see the fallout.  The vintage crowd is pretty stubborn- I expect there will be friction.  Unfortunately, AHRMA is broke, so they probably needed a coop race like this.

[Super Dave]

Stubborn?  Well, yeah, I guess I'm part of that crowd too.  I raced with them for a long time.

It's potentially a better match in that AHRMA has had alternative racing with singles, twins, and triples for quite some time. 

AHRMA has problems from litigation and what I think is loss of revenue from when the AMA took over the Mid-Ohio vintage days.  It will survive.  I'm sure that each organization, CCS & AHRMA, realizes that MotoST will seek to build a bigger program above a singular twins based endurance program into other road racing programs that provide sprint opportunities.  They might even produce the Daytona 200 format on their own rather than allowing AMA Pro Racing to use it, I'm sure. 

I'm sure a lot of road racers recognize that too.  I'm not sure that it needs a RRW article though.  Everything is an option at this point.  I'm sure the France family considered buying CCS from CCE, and I'm sure CCE offered it.

[Garywc]

Dave lets use your SV for the moto st races next year

[xb9racer]

Seems to be a lot of complaining and bitching toward a series that does nothing more than promote motorcycle racing. Let's see..... Speed is showing Moto-ST, NOT CCS races so I would assume they may get treated a little better. Such is life.
I pitted for JamesGang at R.A and Iowa. I had one of my races moved from Saturday to Sunday at RA. I didn't think it was a big deal. That being said, I can see if some were just there for Saturday, it being a problem and I hope CCS was smart enough to refund their money.
Let CCS know that you prefer not to have races scheduled during Moto-ST events. Or just don't go if they happen to fall on the same weekend.

[Super Dave]

Dave lets use your SV for the moto st races next year

http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,18683.0.html

[123user]

Actually, it shouldn't be an issue this year.  I am specifically choosing not to attend Daytona next fall for this reason.  I was, however, effected by Moto-ST this year.  It may be petty, but, you bet I'm holding a grudge about being kicked out of my garage spot.  You bet I'm angry about having races moved for a non-ASRA/CCS group.  You bet I'm angry that Moto-ST operates on the backs of club-racers.

Its not simply an issue of complaining.  Moto-ST is only promoting itself... and then only to the kind of person that thinks NASCAR make sense.  Unfortunately,  marketing is the key to racing in America... what does that say about us.  It says we'd rather be told what we like than decide on our own.  Did you happen to notice the people in Daytona this fall.  A bunch of beer swilling, drunk riding, idiots that would rather watch a fat wrinkled old hag topless then watch a motorcycle race.  Are these the people we're supposed to bring into the sport?

No, I'll pass.  I don't think I want their help. They can pay their own way.

[KTG]

Actually, it shouldn't be an issue this year.  I am specifically choosing not to attend Daytona next fall for this reason.  I was, however, effected by Moto-ST this year.  It may be petty, but, you bet I'm holding a grudge about being kicked out of my garage spot.  You bet I'm angry about having races moved for a non-ASRA/CCS group.  You bet I'm angry that Moto-ST operates on the backs of club-racers.

Its not simply an issue of complaining.  Moto-ST is only promoting itself... and then only to the kind of person that thinks NASCAR make sense.  Unfortunately,  marketing is the key to racing in America... what does that say about us.  It says we'd rather be told what we like than decide on our own.  Did you happen to notice the people in Daytona this fall.  A bunch of beer swilling, drunk riding, idiots that would rather watch a fat wrinkled old hag topless then watch a motorcycle race.  Are these the people we're supposed to bring into the sport?

No, I'll pass.  I don't think I want their help. They can pay their own way.

It seems as though you should be mad at CCS for allowing Moto-ST to "piggyback"?   

I for one liked watching the race at RA...Flat-twin BMWs grinding cylinder-heads, Neoclassic Ducati's rippin around, etc.   

[Kelly Daniels]

I thought Moto-ST was owned and founded by Roger Edmundson. Maybe some of you know who he is. If it promotes motorcycle racing, it will eventually get us more tracks  to ride, more track time, more respect in the motorsports crowd, etc. I wish them all luck and I enjoy watching the races. The only thing that bothered me was when they locked up the pits without any notice this fall. Imagine my surprise when I came back from lunch.

[Super Dave]

Roger runs the MotoST series in addition to Grand Am for the France corporation that runs and owns their tracks, NASCAR, and their other properties.