08 LW class rules

[HAWK]

Splitting the LS class into air and liquid cooled camps is not possible, we have too many classes as it is. Without the currently proposed change the SV would soon be outclassed in LW with no options, at least this way the many SV owners have a place to race and you can always race up. Actually the liquid cooled twins have long had an advantage over the air cooled when it came to HP/cc effiency, that's why the air cooled bikes are allowed larger displacements. The manufacturers however have been able to narrow the advantage and are now making much stronger air cooled bikes that can stay together. Eric's new rules as proposed will allow the liquid cooled bikes larger displacements to bring back parity. This works well from the manufacturers end as they can alter the design and come back with a competitive bike next season but proves to be more problematic for the racer who has the older design. While it is possible to increase an SV to 800cc the means of doing so available to the owner of a 650 tend to overwhelm the reliability of the 650 bottom end. The result is what we currently see, the SV650 will go to ULW and the manufacturers will begin to offer 750-800cc liquid cooled twins. Eric's willingness to delay this change for a year is to be applauded as it will give the racers of the many machines that will be affected a year to regroup and reduce the cost and headache of the change.

[steve p]

Just what we need, more classes

[Ridgeway]

Right now, you've got UltraLWSB, LWSS, LWSB, & LWGP.  My idea was to replace all those with LCTwinSS, LCTwinSB, ACTwinSS, ACTwinSB.  Class count would stay the same.  Not a perfect solution by any means, but a clean slate idea.

I don't think Suzuki or Kawasaki are going to come out with dramatically more powerfull entry-level bikes any time soon.  The moderate power level is part of what makes them an ideal entry-level bike.  The XB12, 1000SS, BMW1200's etc. are not entry level bikes in the consumer marketplace so they don't compete on the showroom floor, and I doubt race-bike sales make up a significant part of the sales #s for either group.

[HAWK]

Your class idea is actually very similar to what Erics proposal will do except that there will be no SS class for the LC twins. As far as Suzuki and Kawasaki stepping up their twins, I agree that the racing crowd is not much of a driving factor. That said the new 750 and 800 water cooled twins coming out from other manufacturers such as Aprilia and BMW will take street market share from them and force them to step up or step out. As easy as it would be to redesign the SV into a 750 I can't see Suzuki walking away from the market. The Aircooled bikes have stepped up their game and there is no reason the think that the Watercooled manufacturers won't do the same so CCS is going to send the SV to ULW and welcome the new more powerful Watercooled twins to the LW ranks.

[Super Dave]

... the LW classes should cater to beginner racers.

Nice idea, but most people start racing with their street bike.  600's are still the most popular.  Racers might recognize the lower cost opportunities of lightweight bikes, but some riders may never race them, focusing on moving up from 600's and up. 

The beginner class is amateur, isn't it?

[apriliaman]

at the moment the ducati 800SS is allowed to race and it is as fast as an SV. So if you had that bike you could win every race.So if the SV or KAW650 is allowed it will even it up.I do race an FZR in the class and there is no way i can catch that bike.I also have an SV so it will be good for me if they change the rules and i can have a better back up bike if my ducati has a problem with it.

[EX_#76]

"Hello...My name is Rick and I am a professional shit disturber ."

Do you mean that Rick is the code word for the "Brown Tone"?

[123user]

Nice idea, but most people start racing with their street bike.  600's are still the most popular.  Racers might recognize the lower cost opportunities of lightweight bikes, but some riders may never race them, focusing on moving up from 600's and up. 

The beginner class is amateur, isn't it?

The 600 class is the most popular because both the bikes and riders are cheap and plentiful.  I could bought 2 new 600's, or 3 SV's for what I spent racing my 1000ss this year!  The only thing light about lightweight is our wallets...  If racing was really about fun and affordability, there would be 30 bike grids in 125gp.  For many, its all about bling.  Most people spent more on their bodywork than on their motors and suspension... what does that tell you about the "us"

[Super Dave]

+1

Well stated.

I'm always impressed by all the mods in lightweight when some try to sell it as a budget class.

[benprobst]

+1

Well stated.

I'm always impressed by all the mods in lightweight when some try to sell it as a budget class.

Guilty 

[roadracer162]

Thanks Eric and the CCS staff for all the work you do. I have a better understanding about the arguments presented and also some of the issues that has to be dealt with. I know that enryone won't be pleased and I applaud your effort.

Mark

[truckstop]

+1

Well stated.

I'm always impressed by all the mods in lightweight when some try to sell it as a budget class.

Yeah, but you can dump a lot of money into anything, and I get that the top runners in the LW classes *do* dump a lot of time and money into their bikes, but I still kind of agree with the idea that LW is good for the budget minded.

When I added up our expenses for '07, it came out that the cost of running X's 600 vs. my Hawk was over twice as much.

We both bought used, race prepped bikes, at the beginning of the season, we both upgraded our front brakes, the bike and brakes cost more than double for the 600. Neither went overboard on upgrades and we both bought spare sets of wheels and various other miscellany. We both ran the same number of events. He bought tires almost every weekend, I bought two sets of tires for the whole season. There's no way we could afford to both run 600's mostly based on cost of buying tires alone. I dealt with the cheap bike, hand-me-downs, and buying used parts because I have less talent and am not competitive. I still had a blast.
I also didn't have to worry about tossing a spendy bike (or a streetbike that still had a loan on it) and wadding it up. Had that happened I would have been able to afford a replacement pretty easily.

Can and do people dump piles of money into LW bikes? Sure, but as a "cheap" way to get into racing I still think the LW classes are the way to go if cost and getting experience are more important starting out than winning championships. Then again, I'm doing this for myself, for fun, and to spend time with X, more than for winning stuff. That's not really normal for racers.