Daytona amatuer supertwins

[tstruyk]

 

see ya next year JB!   

[tmx11]

If you will notice the link that someone posted, about "ADDITIONAL" Expert racers that were bumped in the CMRA. The ADDITIONAL racers did not meet the .60 riders index that was currently used. So these racers were just pulled out of the blue, for what reason, no one knows. The rule about having to race two weekends, as an expert, the following year was not in the rulebook, but was in fact the truth. Just like the rulebook was bent to bump additional riders. I remember this very well, and so does everyone else in the CMRA. Everyone was upset, and many riders quit racing becauwe of it. If I can find the original bump grid with all the riders index's, I will post it, but I assure you, he was not on it.  

If I have to guess, this has something to do with trying to destroy his credibility, seeing that he is going to start CCS South, racing against the CMRA. I'd think, that the whole story needs to be heard. If he had other racers on his tail, and didn't run away with it, I'd say he was a novice.

Not trying to stir any pot, but the truth, should be told. He was not originally bumped, then, for some reason, out of the blue, bumped, without the current riders index. Just because he finished 3rd or 4th out of 7 riders.

BTW. I don't even know the guy. But I know exactly what happened last year in the expert bumps in the CMRA.

[tmx11]

http://www.cmraracing.com/results/2006/ri15/

Notice .38 riders index

a good 22% below the bump level as per CMRA rulebook

[BigJerm7]

the cmra rulebook also states that if you finish in the top five in total points in a class you are automatically bumped to expert.  he finished 3rd in heavyweight twins.

[surftheasphalt]

Novice riders finishing in the top five (5) in final season point standings in all CMRA Novice and Combined (No Expert/Novice differentiation) sprint classes will be promoted to Expert status at the end of the racing season. Novice riders that participate with any CMRA Championship (Big Bike) Endurance Team that finishes in the top three (3) in final season point standings in the five (5) CMRA Endurance classes will be promoted to Expert status at the end of the racing season. The CMRA Board of Directors may review the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and may use additional criteria to determine advancement. Additional criteria may include
individual finishes, lap times, safety record and the ratio of rider results to the number of competitors, among others.

from cmra rulebook.

so Marshall was Heavyweight Twins Novice final 2006
3 Travis Marshall            262     0    40    34    35    37     0    45    40    31     0

By the rulebook hi was automatically advance to expert in 2007
it is cheating?
Yes by my book

[surftheasphalt]

I hope is not only a talk
Please CCS do right things,
We have in 2006 situation with Henderson,
was racing as expert in wera an AM ccs and over and over.......
nothing was done.
2006 wera racer profile:
Curt Henderson
Bike #  373
Status  Expert
Hometown  Poplar Bluff, MO

Hard to belive ,come for a 2006 win and is gone !!!

[tmx11]

That was a new rule for this year, not last year. They made this rule to justify, some of the additional bumps. Different classes are more or less competitive as we all know. heavyweight twins is a non competitive class in comparison, to the superstock, and superbike classes.

I am only posting. Not to flame, Or destroy anyone's credibility. I would would only like to see this person's credibility not be tarnished, he is venturing in probably the biggest accomplishment, (or failure), in his life. I do not, (no matter who they are,) want to see, a big black X, on someones credentials, if they are trying to do something good for our sport. For something Like this. When they should not have been bumped in the first place. Most of the time, points add up to those who show up. If you have 7 riders that showed up to every race in that class, it would not be very hard to finish in the top 5. At a .38 riders index, he was not competitive, in the other classes. At that index out of 30 riders, he was an average 18th place finisher. I saw many riders this year, that did not get bumped, do very well, that were not a threat, in any way last year. So he got better.

BTW. There was only one rider that raced every race in heavyweight twins, Travis himself missed 3 races, the 2nd place finisher, missed two races.
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2006/Event10/points/sapoints.txt Look for yourself. Check out the results in the other classes.

This was not started by the CMRA, only a disgruntled member against this certain individual. I do not believe this should have ever been posted. Now that it was, and thousands have read it. The reasoning behind it needed to be revealed. The CMRA itself, should not be to blame. Go race for yourself with the CMRA, you won't win. (unless you are a phenom) To be bumped to expert in the CMRA, the only way you will get a top ten finish, is to be an AMA regular. No wonder he petitioned. and rightfully so.

I myself apologize on behalf of the CMRA. It's a great club, with great racing, someone doesn't want it to fail, by threat of competition. In this case, the first time, the CMRA rules were out of their guidelines.(which is very rare) It just so happen to be this certain individual, that decided he didn't like the rules, and wanted to do something about it. Isn't that what we, should do???
Isn't that what everyone says? If you don't like it, do something to change it, or shut up??? That's exactly what he is doing.

Anyway.... Oh well...
I hope this helped, some of the controversy. When the law operates outside of it's guidelines, there are laws to protect us. But not in private organizations.

[surftheasphalt]

so 2006 rulebook don't state about top 5 finishes in amature???

[CMRAracer41]

If you will notice the link that someone posted, about "ADDITIONAL" Expert racers that were bumped in the CMRA. The ADDITIONAL racers did not meet the .60 riders index that was currently used. So these racers were just pulled out of the blue, for what reason, no one knows. The rule about having to race two weekends, as an expert, the following year was not in the rulebook, but was in fact the truth. Just like the rulebook was bent to bump additional riders. I remember this very well, and so does everyone else in the CMRA. Everyone was upset, and many riders quit racing becauwe of it. If I can find the original bump grid with all the riders index's, I will post it, but I assure you, he was not on it.  

If I have to guess, this has something to do with trying to destroy his credibility, seeing that he is going to start CCS South, racing against the CMRA. I'd think, that the whole story needs to be heard. If he had other racers on his tail, and didn't run away with it, I'd say he was a novice.

Not trying to stir any pot, but the truth, should be told. He was not originally bumped, then, for some reason, out of the blue, bumped, without the current riders index. Just because he finished 3rd or 4th out of 7 riders.

BTW. I don't even know the guy. But I know exactly what happened last year in the expert bumps in the CMRA.

If you are going to post inflamatory, supposedly first hand knowledge that you claim to be true, why not add your real name?

From the CMRA rulebook:
"Novice riders who meet or exceed the requirement of Expert classification will be promoted to Expert status at the end of the racing season. The method of advancement is by the Rider Index formula, which is a mathematical formula that factors both finishes and field sizes. The Rider Index is determined using the following formula: Rider Index = 1 - (Finishing Position / Number of Starters). This is calculated for each race a rider enters, then the average of all his/her races that season. The Novice rider must have entered at least 15 races to be included in consideration for advancement. The CMRA Board of Directors will determine the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and the Rider Index will be announced following the last race of each season. Riders with a Rider Index at and above the announced Rider Index are automatically moved up to Expert the following year. Also, any Novice who wins a Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert."

Here is the mysterious formula.  Now the truth.  Every year the cutoff point changes.  Sometimes up, sometimes down.  It changes out of necessity due to various factors that change year to year in the novice ranks.  Factors like grid sizes, laptimes of top novices to experts, contingency consideration in the expert field, and so on.  The fact that it changes is generally not noticed.  In 2006 it was because the first number that was announced was decided by the 2005 number and was not representative of the 2006 novice class racers who were fast enough to be experts.
Now when the second bump was announced, the Board, the officials, nor anyone else for that matter could have predicted that Travis would leave the CMRA, contest as an Amatuer in CCS, win a championship, and start his own racing series under CCS South.  Hard to beleive then that there was a conspiracy by the CMRA to malign his character with the future hopes of destroying his credibility. 
For all we at the CMRA knew, Travis had along with the other new experts, accepted his promotion as he chose to RENEW his license as an EXPERT in 2007 and race.
Want more proof?  Here is a pic from his own website taking the checkered flag at OHR in Feb 07.

http://www.travismarshallmotorsports.com/Pic_051.JPG

Looks like white plates to me.

Barry Nichols
CMRA

[CMRAracer41]

That was a new rule for this year, not last year. They made this rule to justify, some of the additional bumps. Different classes are more or less competitive as we all know. heavyweight twins is a non competitive class in comparison, to the superstock, and superbike classes.

I am only posting. Not to flame, Or destroy anyone's credibility. I would would only like to see this person's credibility not be tarnished, he is venturing in probably the biggest accomplishment, (or failure), in his life. I do not, (no matter who they are,) want to see, a big black X, on someones credentials, if they are trying to do something good for our sport. For something Like this. When they should not have been bumped in the first place. Most of the time, points add up to those who show up. If you have 7 riders that showed up to every race in that class, it would not be very hard to finish in the top 5. At a .38 riders index, he was not competitive, in the other classes. At that index out of 30 riders, he was an average 18th place finisher. I saw many riders this year, that did not get bumped, do very well, that were not a threat, in any way last year. So he got better.

BTW. There was only one rider that raced every race in heavyweight twins, Travis himself missed 3 races, the 2nd place finisher, missed two races.
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2006/Event10/points/sapoints.txt Look for yourself. Check out the results in the other classes.

This was not started by the CMRA, only a disgruntled member against this certain individual. I do not believe this should have ever been posted. Now that it was, and thousands have read it. The reasoning behind it needed to be revealed. The CMRA itself, should not be to blame. Go race for yourself with the CMRA, you won't win. (unless you are a phenom) To be bumped to expert in the CMRA, the only way you will get a top ten finish, is to be an AMA regular. No wonder he petitioned. and rightfully so.

I myself apologize on behalf of the CMRA. It's a great club, with great racing, someone doesn't want it to fail, by threat of competition. In this case, the first time, the CMRA rules were out of their guidelines.(which is very rare) It just so happen to be this certain individual, that decided he didn't like the rules, and wanted to do something about it. Isn't that what we, should do???
Isn't that what everyone says? If you don't like it, do something to change it, or shut up??? That's exactly what he is doing.

Anyway.... Oh well...
I hope this helped, some of the controversy. When the law operates outside of it's guidelines, there are laws to protect us. But not in private organizations.

Wow.  Clearly....What..........Huh.......   Wow.  I am too tired to rebut all the inacuracies in this one. 

If you CCS racers are ever in the neighborhood, stop by and race a few with us.   Then decide.  Cheers!

Barry Nichols
CMRA

[tmx11]

No one was arguing with you Barry. The rulebook does clearly state what you said it did. Up until this year, there was no way to bump novice endurance racers. Yes?? This year the new rule was added that the top 5 in each class get bumped was added? Yes/no? I remember this clearly, that several endurance racers that only entered enough races not to qualify for the bump... Yes. it's true. Every year this is argued... YES???? If I had the time to search through threads, there was clearly a thread about the fact that if you wanted to remain novice, you had to race the first two (2) races as an expert before your petition would even be accepted... This is accurate. YES!

I do not post my name because I enjoy racing with the CMRA, I did not agree with the additional bumps last year. Now that someone decided to switch clubs, because he was so unhappy with it. Why should he be getting bashed? In one of the 1000 classes he was ten seconds off pace from the lead expert rider in the first expert race, three seconds slower than the top novice finisher. Yet, his petition was denied?

You can try to bash my credibility all you want, I don't care. I only would like to see both clubs, succeed, this was a low blow. By only one of the CMRA members. Not the CMRA as a whole. Last year was the first time, people were bumped, with such low riders index's. Many that were below the level, were not competitive. This is my one and only point. Why was this thread posted in the first place by a CMRA official? That is the biggest problem, and the fact of who it's against. It was none of his business. Many racers quit racing with the CMRA because of the ruling. Maybe some of them still wanted to race, but humiliated, to be lapped by the first ten experts.

I'll go ahead and believe my words and credibility will stand for themselves. How would most of you novice racers feel to be bumped as a 15th place finisher? Just because you raced one non-competitive class, and did well.

[ccs117]

WOW!  Sometimes the racer himself/herself must make a good decision.  I enjoy racing with both the CMRA and CCS.  In 2006 I had some decent amateur finishes, but did not make the 15 race minimum with the CMRA.  I couldn't afford to race the entire season.  Driving was closer for many of the CCS races.  I did what I feel was the right thing to do.  At the end of last season I petitioned the CMRA for advancement to Expert, before learning of my status with the CCS.  I want to get better and competing against the best is the way to do it.  I'm not looking for an atta boy, just disappointed people don't make better decision.  No amateur championship here, but I learned more this year getting spanked by the Experts than I would have winning amateur events.  Just my two cents.