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Author Topic: New goal for the year! (maybe)  (Read 3663 times)

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Super Dave

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2003, 04:40:50 am »
Might have lost his peg during the race, but their qualifying put them many rows back from Monte Nichols' position.  I expected them to do better in qualifying, and I expected more of them.  They can both go pretty quick.

Gordy, I'll agree to a point.  Yes, they should announce it, but, additionally, this is the BIG SHOW, so sometimes I don't think fairness should come into play.  Regardless of how goofy the AMA might be at this level, it is the premiere road racing series in North America.  And the factories spend a huge amount of money buying and supporting teams that can been seen on TV, Print, and the like.  So, yes, there is an entry fee, but that allows your team/rider an opportunity to make the field.  If the rider doesn't get it done...  

The Daytona 500 has many teams that try to make the field.  Probably 100 try to get in, but, what, 44 make the event.  The entry costs tens of thousands of dollars.  But if you don't get the job done, you don't go to the show.  I believe that making the field should be a privelage, not a right.

Roger Hendricks and I both got bumped from the field at Laguna in 1992.  We were within the time.  He was number 41 and I was 43.  Number 42 was from outside of the country.  I did not light the fire under myself that I needed to, and I had brought my evil girl friend along too (MISTAKE!).  I never had a problem before, qualifying, and it never, ever happened again.

r6_philly...  You have to make the decision.  But, remember, it is the big show.  I suppose my thoughts above apply.
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Super Dave

the_weggie_man

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2003, 07:18:40 am »
You're missing my point Dave. In the Nascar and Indy car fields there are x amount of slots open and everyone knows that ahead of time and the racers go out and try to get one of those grid positions by running as fast as they possibly can to get one. It's the top 40 or 44 or 33 or however many slots are open.

In AMA they don't state a number of slots available, just a qualifying time. So, you go out, run the time within their standard and still don't make the race because they set the field without telling anyone there are limited grid slots open. They did their job and still don't get a spot.

That is why you may have some guys running what they think is fast enough rather than pushing for more. They think they are in the field by their qualifying time. They should be in the race but AMA says sure you made the time but oh, we forgot to tell you there are only 40 slots open and you are 41. That is ridiculous!

What they need to do is set a field at 40 or whatever and then the fastest 40 guys make it. It's real simple. Nascar does not set a percentage rule and neither does anyone else. The main show is the fastest x amount of guys in qualifying, period.

They can do it either way but not both. A percentage rule where everyone that makes the cut is in or x amount of grid positions and you have to run fast enough to earn one.

The premier motorcycle race organization in this country is a farce.  


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OmniGLH

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2003, 10:57:27 am »
I think I tend to agree with Dave here.  The AMA is the TOP motorcycle racing org in the country.  The only thing higher than the AMA is what, FIM?  It *should* be reserved for the top ~40 fastest riders.  If they want to cut the field down from 60 or 80 down to whatever... fine.  Just gives you motivation to try harder next time IMO.  It also gives a little more panache to those who DID make the cut.  This is ProAMA.  It's not about fun anymore, it's about racing, winning, and prestige.  The AMA has an image to protect.  If they let any Joe Blow in, then it kinda hurts the image of being a Pro, "best-of-the-best" racing organization.

Based on how many people seem to have qualified under the 112% rule, I'd guess that says that RA is just an "easy" track by Pro standards.  So they have to bend the rules a little and raise the bar.  To be honest, I'm surprised at some of the lap times - I figured they were typos or something.  Wasn't there a handful of 27s that qualified in 750SS?  That's barely a second faster than what *I* was running, and I'm a 1st year Am.  

As for not TELLING you they were gonna cut it to 40 riders... ya, that kinda stinks, but what're ya gonna do?  They may not have anticipated having 80 guys fit under their 112% rule.  But it's their org.  Like I said, they need to maintain an image of being the top-level racing series.  If they deem you're not fast enough, then well, you're not fast enough.  Regardless of whether you squeak in under their "limit" or not.  Sorry pal, better luck next time.  You'll just have to go faster next year.

Now I'm also with sdiver here... I don't see the harm in trying to qualify.  It gives me something to shoot for... kinda like going out for the basketball team.  You keep trying year after year until you make it... you don't sit around and wait until you think you're ready.  If all of these people that are qualifying into the races that shouldn't be... then maybe AMA needs to just raise the bar for that particular track.  (Which it seems to me that they did, setting the top-40 cutoff.)  And if I was IN that 40, I don't think I'd want anymore people on the track anyways.  I was part of a near-40 rider field last August.  I was gridded in the last row (no pre-entry) and my god, what a cluster-f**k going into T1.  40 people, even on such a large track, is a LOT of people.  

Anyways... that's my $7.50.  

Steve, ya we'll have to pit next to each other next year, whenever we can.  I always enjoy sharing ideas with other riders on how to go faster around the track.  I'm sure I'll be picking your brains when it comes to Gateway next year, since I've never even SEEN the track...
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Jim "Porcelain" Ptak

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2003, 11:08:56 am »
Quote
In AMA they don't state a number of slots available, just a qualifying time. So, you go out, run the time within their standard and still don't make the race because they set the field without telling anyone there are limited grid slots open. They did their job and still don't get a spot.


That is why you may have some guys running what they think is fast enough rather than pushing for more. They think they are in the field by their qualifying time. They should be in the race but AMA says sure you made the time but oh, we forgot to tell you there are only 40 slots open and you are 41. That is ridiculous!


Well, *I* would think that, this being a PRO event, you should be pretty much giving it your ALL during qualifying.  Shit, you should be giving it your ALL, all weekend.  Unless you're in the top-5, where you KNOW you can slack off.  But this is professional-level racing.  This is serious.  The teams there, are there to try to win.  They're there to make a name for themselves.  If you're slacking off, and doing the bare minimum to just get yourself in.. then you don't deserve it as much as the next guy who really busted his ass to make it.

Quote
What they need to do is set a field at 40 or whatever and then the fastest 40 guys make it. It's real simple. Nascar does not set a percentage rule and neither does anyone else. The main show is the fastest x amount of guys in qualifying, period.

They can do it either way but not both. A percentage rule where everyone that makes the cut is in or x amount of grid positions and you have to run fast enough to earn one.

The premier motorcycle race organization in this country is a farce.  


Well, but I can see a good reason to have both.

In NASCAR, it's a popular enough sport, that you HAVE 100+ teams that are CAPABLE of qualifying and being competitive.  Now, I don't pay ANY attention to NASCAR (I hate it, actually) but I'd imagine that the lap times that separate the #1 qualifier, from the #40, aren't nearly as drastic as the gaps we see in the AMA.

NASCAR has enough people that they can justify just cutting it at 40.  But with ProAMA roadracing... do they even HAVE 40 teams that are all running within a few seconds of each other?  No way.  There's already a pretty healthy spread in lap times across the *top-20* guys.  The 112% thing probably has to do with safety as well as the prestige factor.  If you're running 2:10s at RA, you don't want to be running into guys that are running 2:35s, do you?  You have such a tremendous difference across the field that there becomes a serious danger involved with the difference in closing speeds between a lapper and the #1 guy.  The AMA doesn't get the participation levels to just cut it at 40 guys.  If they did, the 40th guy may be 20-30 seconds off the pace.  That's not good.  They've gotta set a time limit somewhere.
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Jim "Porcelain" Ptak


the_weggie_man

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2003, 12:05:26 pm »
My point is they can't do it both ways. One or the other. Within 112% or a 40 bike field.

I understand  the safety issues, believe me. The AMA has run these tracks for how long? If they want to keep it safe they define a track density for each venue and that's it. Then you have x amount of grid positions to qualify for at each race.  That will give you the top 40 or whatever racers for each event.

If 112% is too lax of a time then they need to tighten it up.  My main complaint is the way they change rules midstream and screw over guys who qualified by their rules.

Yes in NASCAR all the competitors are closer. You don't get there by being slow. But NASCAR is like our Superbike class not SS. Take the factories out of SS and guess what. the times are a lot closer.

But that's another thread ...Why are factory Superbike riders allowed in SS racing?  You don't see that in world SS. It's a class all it's own and the riders don't cross over.  SS riders earn their way up to a superbike ride by winning in SS. Once there they don't ride down.

And the idea that there may not be enough riders to qualify for an event stems from that. Too many club racers won't even attempt to qualify because they know they don't stand a chance against the factories.
True?  
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OmniGLH

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2003, 12:49:08 pm »
Quote
I understand  the safety issues, believe me. The AMA has run these tracks for how long? If they want to keep it safe they define a track density for each venue and that's it. Then you have x amount of grid positions to qualify for at each race.  That will give you the top 40 or whatever racers for each event.


But isn't that kinda what they did at RA?  The only difference is that they didn't do this until after everyone had gone through qualifying?

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If 112% is too lax of a time then they need to tighten it up.  


I agree.

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My main complaint is the way they change rules midstream and screw over guys who qualified by their rules.


I guess this is really mainly where we disagree.  I don't see how they "screwed over" anyone.  Ok, so somebody made it under the 112%, thought they qualified, did a happy dance... and then an official came around and told them that they didn't qualify afterall.  So the racer is disappointed.

But as I see it, it's not a racers "right" to be allowed to race.  He doesn't "deserve" anything.  I see it as a privilege to run in the pro ranks.  Those who have not only worked to make it there... but those who have worked AND achieved.  

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Yes in NASCAR all the competitors are closer. You don't get there by being slow. But NASCAR is like our Superbike class not SS. Take the factories out of SS and guess what. the times are a lot closer.


That's very true.  There does seem to be a pretty big difference between the factory guys, and the privateers.  But if you take out the factory teams, then what are you left with?  A race that's no different from a FUSA or local CCS race?

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But that's another thread ...Why are factory Superbike riders allowed in SS racing?  You don't see that in world SS. It's a class all it's own and the riders don't cross over.  SS riders earn their way up to a superbike ride by winning in SS. Once there they don't ride down.


Yeah, it can probably turn into a whole other huge-arse thread  ;)  I'm kinda torn right now between being a potential future AMA competitor, and a fan of the series (as a spectator.)  I kinda like seeing what factory-level riders can do on almost near-stock bikes.

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And the idea that there may not be enough riders to qualify for an event stems from that. Too many club racers won't even attempt to qualify because they know they don't stand a chance against the factories.
True?  


While I think that could be debateable... I tend to agree.   On one hand, I totally agree with you.  Most smaller teams would know that they don't stand a chance, so why bother.  There isn't as much popularity, glory, or money in motorcycle racing as there is in some of the car stuff (NHRA, NASCAR, etc.) so it's much harder to form a profitable privateer race team.

But on the other hand, it may just force privateer teams to up their own bar.

I dunno.  This is an interesting discussion tho.  I've never really paid attention to the politics of racing.  I raced motocross for a few years before stepping into roadracing, but never really took it very seriously.  I look at my roadracing career a little differently.  I'm sure it shows that I'm still new into all of this... and maybe my opinions on some of this stuff will change once I reach the level to where I believe I'm competitive with the pro guys.

At any rate.. time to get back to playing MotoGP  :)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2003, 02:25:15 pm by OmniGLH »
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Jim "Porcelain" Ptak

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2003, 01:12:58 pm »
Man, I gotta agree w/ EVERY work Omni has said.
If you can't roll w/ them boyz, why you even out there? ???
Fighting for last place just doesn't seem like much fun ;D ;)
imho
« Last Edit: February 23, 2003, 01:13:47 pm by Speedballer347 »
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Gixxer124

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2003, 02:26:42 pm »
Here's the answer. A supposed Pro organization should have a clear defined set of rules for the event there putting on. How fast or slow you are has no bearing on this. :P
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OmniGLH

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2003, 02:31:46 pm »
Quote
Fighting for last place just doesn't seem like much fun ;D ;)
imho


True... it's always more fun up front  ;D

But I think I'd still be grinning from ear to ear just knowing I qualified to be out there racing next to the factory teams - dead last or not!  :)

PS - where did you find that pic in your sig of the kid getting beaned?  Hilarious....
« Last Edit: February 23, 2003, 02:32:36 pm by OmniGLH »
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Jim "Porcelain" Ptak

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2003, 02:34:37 pm »
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But I think I'd still be grinning from ear to ear just knowing I qualified to be out there racing next to the factory teams - dead last or not!  :)....
I'm just bustin sdiver's chops ;) :D
I'll be there pittin' for him 8)
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OmniGLH

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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2003, 02:36:48 pm »
Quote

I'm just bustin sdiver's chops ;) :D
I'll be there pittin' for him 8)


LOL that's ok  ;)  As time gets closer I figure I'll be giving DanO sh*t too  ;D

So the question is: who's gonna finish 39th, and who will take 40th?  DanO or sdiver?  LOL...
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Re: New goal for the year! (maybe)
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2003, 02:41:33 pm »
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So the question is: who's gonna finish 39th, and who will take 40th?  DanO or sdiver?  LOL...
Diver will take 39th, cause I will be doing lots of supension & tire pressure adjustments on DanO's bike, on behalf of my teammate sdiver ;D ;D ;D ;)
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