NEED HELP! F2'S IN LIGHTWEIGHT CLASSES!

[F2RGK]

Hey Ron, good discussion.

Thanks for the kind words. But I just want to set the record straight; there are no LW legal 130 HP Buells.

The fact is that my Buell is built to LW Superbike rules (stock displacement). It's a reliable, competitive package. And I bump up into Thunderbike and SuperTwins to chase Buell money.

Perhaps the rules could be written to allow the F2 into more LW races without upsetting the balance of a very competitive and diverse class, but I worry that sets the stage for LW to become the dumping ground for every non-current 600 in the future.

The reason that Thunderbike allows F2s is because the class rules were first designed as a "Heavyweight Sportsman" class. The name was later changed, but the spirit remains.

Hey PJ,

I guess my emotions got caught up in the moment.  That's what I really meant to say in regards to your bike (not trying to draw attention to the Black Stallion)!  HeHe he.  LOL!  Super Dave, in reply to the opportunistic side....Maybe!  This does make for good conversation though!  On this board, it's like big news!!! 

Have a good weekend everyone---Going to Florida to Work on my Daytona Tan before ROC!P

[xseal]

Hey Ron, good discussion.

Thanks for the kind words. But I just want to set the record straight; there are no LW legal 130 HP Buells.

The fact is that my Buell is built to LW Superbike rules (stock displacement). It's a reliable, competitive package. And I bump up into Thunderbike and SuperTwins to chase Buell money.

Perhaps the rules could be written to allow the F2 into more LW races without upsetting the balance of a very competitive and diverse class, but I worry that sets the stage for LW to become the dumping ground for every non-current 600 in the future.

The reason that Thunderbike allows F2s is because the class rules were first designed as a "Heavyweight Sportsman" class. The name was later changed, but the spirit remains.

The "factory" supported Buells racing in ASRA have got to be over 120hp.  I don't know how the deisplacements are modified, but I did see one of those XBRRs pull a superstock 999R out of a turn.

[Super Dave]

I haven't seen Bilansky's Buell pull me...and I don't have 120HP. 

His is a Thunderbike Buell...it does not conform to Lightweight that I know of.

[PJ]

The "factory" supported Buells racing in ASRA have got to be over 120hp.  I don't know how the deisplacements are modified, but I did see one of those XBRRs pull a superstock 999R out of a turn.

There are no "factory" supported Buells in ASRA (unless you count the generous contingency program and trackside parts and technical support from Henry Duga, available to every Buell racer).

Post race dyno results show the top ASRA Thunderbike-spec Buells make less than 120 HP. And none of those bikes would be Lightweight legal due to displacement larger than 1210cc.

The XBRR, which makes more than 130 HP, is not legal for any Lightweight class, nor is it legal for CCS Thunderbike. But it's a weapon in SuperTwins!

[EX_#76]

The "factory" supported Buells racing in ASRA have got to be over 120hp.  I don't know how the deisplacements are modified, but I did see one of those XBRRs pull a superstock 999R out of a turn.

Look in RRW at the post race dyno runs, no thunderbike is 120hp.  I have seen all of the front runners on the dyno, and have added the in the 12% for the factory to dynojet measurement difference.  Nate's BMW has the most power and that equates to 112 to 117 dynojet HP depending on its state of tune.  Some of the top ASRA guys run different maps in the CCS races and will make a few more HP maybe 5 or so.  An XBRR has to be detuned for Tbike.

[123user]

We should start using a secret code word for "horsepower"  Only those initiated would know the secret word.   

We could also use a special alpha-numeric numbering system.  Instead of saying "this bike pulled 120 horsepower", the initiated would say "this bike's Froggly jumped a72i"  we could even use an old German enigma machine to decode.

Many of those quoting HP numbers are wrong at best, and making fools of themselve at worst.  Anyone who passed high school physics should know that HP is just a calculated number... a calculated number to describe energy in a time interval.  Most of the time, its a calculated average, it is rarely an instaneous measurement.   Anybody thats ever felt a KX500 get "on the pipe" understands that the "average" torque measurement is not directly related to the motors ability to accelerate.  Thats why inertia dyno's have fudge factors. 

This is why F2/F3 bike don't belong.  The "measured" number may be the same, but the effect is different...  After all, we're not using the power to illuminate light bulbs, we're accelerating.  @12,000rpm the instantaneous velocity is different.

[xseal]

The ASRA dyno's read about 15% low.

I guess when I say 'factory supported' I mean the guys sponsored by Hals ... which I have to assume is getting parts and the like on some kind of deal from Buell, .... they seem to be short fuzed motors.

I agree there is a difference in the LW and TB legal Buells ... I just don't know how much it is. I can say that I see 100hp bikes get their doors blown off by those Buells down the straights, and they are running times w/in a couple % of the fastest 600s.

[Ducmarc]

it takes torque to win a drag race not hp and that's the buell's advantage I have to wind my 748 like clock to come of the corner and it's 109 hp at the tire. if i had 4mm more stroke it would pull under 8500.

[ahastings]

Why do you think they changed 4 cylinder limit in ASRA Thunderbike to 5.0 lbs per hp vs 4.0 lbs per hp for the twins. Because it would be easy to take an outdated no longer in production bike and build a weapon to dominate the class.
Here are some #s to ponder right out of the latest RRW from ASRA TB at Summit from the top 5. 1st-Estok -Buell 396 lbs, 88 hp . 2nd Kern-  BMW 438 lbs, 102.3 hp. 3rd- James-Buell 406 lbs 92.6 hp. 4th Bilansky- Buell 410 lbs 96.3 hp. 5th Me- SV 700 Superbike, 363 lbs 74.9 hp .  How easy would it be to blow that away with a superbike spec F2 plus the added fact that an inline 4 will accelerate much quicker.

[cbr-racer]

I would like to race my F2 in LW superbike & GT lights.
But then again I like racing it in GTU also. My f2 has nowhere near the power of the bikes in GTU but I think it has made me a better rider? Don't get me wrong I would still love to race it in LWSB & GT LITES
The more track time the better. Thunderbike , GTU and friday practice is not alot of track time. But I don't think the CCS will ever let F2's in the LW classes. 

[Team Spalding]

cbr-racer, you could also race in, Middle wt SB, GP, MW Supersport, and all the heavy weights or unlimited classes. Lots of track time. Many guys race their 600 against the 750s and 1000s and do well depending on the track. You will also see Buells and SVs racing in the MW races sometimes aswell.

[ahastings]

It seems what you are asking for is a rule change to make a vintage bike competetive in current classes.