NEED HELP! F2'S IN LIGHTWEIGHT CLASSES!

[Super Dave]

I agree!  Anyone have any problems with starting a new class or bringing a new one back? 

Yes, there are too many races as it is.

[roadracer162]

Get rid of Am UL SB and make them all experts. If you can ride a big bike fast you should be Expert anyway.

Mark

[Super Dave]

 

[F2RGK]

Oh my how my ears are ringing George!  I wouldn't expect those words from you about me!  Let me tell you this...get used to seeing the back of my bike next year and I'll even let you use your F2 that you sold and I resent the word SandBagging, I believe you called it.  Just for your info and everyone elses, I asked to go expert and CCS turned me down...just ask Eric!  Foremost, I believe I did an excellent job racing this year.  Nobody likes a bragger so I won't even go there!  I had a blast once again with my fellow amateur racers as always....inlcuding the experts!  I race with my heart and did my best.  There was no sandbagging involved.  I didn't just race Thunderbike.  Hell, I placed 10th overall in Am GTU against 2005-2007 bikes on a 20 something year old bike!  So, I don't want to hear that I'm sandbagging.  I worked hard to get those wins and I thank everyone who helped me get them.  I hope you can do better than a 17 at blackhawk (since you don't race at any other tracks), because you're going to need that too get around me!  Goodluck-what nerve!

[roadracer162]

It seems we are just going around in circles with this. It always seems to get back to what classes should be run and how.

It would be nice to have a place for the Novice/Amateur racer to start out such as my son has (Ultralight Superbike comes to mind). Then have a tiered system of progression right on up to expert.

I don't get the need to stay amateur to be competitive. I do support the thought of staying amateur based on rider skill displayed by smoothness, control, and predictability. A racer can possess these without being the fastest guy out there.

I also don't understand the loads of Amateurs starting on say a GSXR1000. If you can ride one you are an expert. If you can't ride it get off the dang bike.

It is nice to go to a "club" and be able to participate in some of the events and sometimes on a budget. If I were looking to become a famous racer I would be going ASRA and then AMA. I am not chasing that dream, this is all about family for me and I enjoy dicing it up out there on the track with the likes of you folks. Now lets go racing.

Mark

[George_Linhart]

Oh my how my ears are ringing George! 

Ron,

I was trying to be a bit funny and light hearted there - I guess that it doesn't come across well over the internet (not the first time).  I'll be the first to say that you stepped up big time this year, you were riding much better and looked great every time I saw you out on the track.  I even knew that you had asked to go expert and that Eric/Kevin declined - so its all good!

I do, however, think that some of the Yellow plate MW LW riders look at your F2 and think that it is the sole reason you dominated the MW Thunderbike class this year.  With the way you have been riding you would have even done well on a Honda Hawk running on 1 cylnder...

I also will be the first to say that I sucked balls this year.  Between the variety of mechanical issues, a lack of track time and an inability to ride comfortably I was giving up about 2 seconds a lap compared to what I should be doing at BHF.  Lets not even talk about Road America - I think I was 7+ seconds off my pace...

Peace my Thunderbike Brother!

George

[EX_#76]

It seems we are just going around in circles with this. It always seems to get back to what classes should be run and how.

It would be nice to have a place for the Novice/Amateur racer to start out such as my son has (Ultralight Superbike comes to mind). Then have a tiered system of progression right on up to expert.

I don't get the need to stay amateur to be competitive. I do support the thought of staying amateur based on rider skill displayed by smoothness, control, and predictability. A racer can possess these without being the fastest guy out there.

I also don't understand the loads of Amateurs starting on say a GSXR1000. If you can ride one you are an expert. If you can't ride it get off the dang bike.

It is nice to go to a "club" and be able to participate in some of the events and sometimes on a budget. If I were looking to become a famous racer I would be going ASRA and then AMA. I am not chasing that dream, this is all about family for me and I enjoy dicing it up out there on the track with the likes of you folks. Now lets go racing.

Mark

Maybe the real solution is to allow the F2 into GT lights and LWSB.  It seems kinda silly that they are not in there already.  I am somewhat concerned about what someone like Ed or myself could do with an F2.  I will bet that I can get one of those bikes down to 325#, and I would not be surprised if we could coax 105+ hp.  Now that could be a real stout bike.  So perhaps some special rules could apply to the F2s to prevent that sort of thing from happening.  Like the F2s must run stock wheels, rotors, cams, carbs, air box and air filter must remain as produced.  If you put a 325# 105hp bike under Ed Key, we will all have more problems before.  It is foolish to think that just because the F2 is old that no one will build one up.  If you create a place for that bike, and some racer sees a competitive advantage, you can bet someone will build it.  I know I would.  You guys that have built up F2s chime in and let me know if I am too far off base on the modification limitations.  If you use a good running SV as a bench mark, you can get one down to 325 and make about 90hp to 92hp fairly reliably without going to the poor house.  So I am thinking that if you can keep the F2 in that sort of power and weight range you might have a fighting chance of getting the rules changed. 

This thread also talks about keeping cost down, limiting mods will do just that

What does everyone think?

[F2RGK]

Apology accepted!  Ya gotta love the internet, can't tell the other persons expression!  


Back to business people:  Let's figure out 1 class that everyone can agree upon and let me know.  The whole purpose of this post was to be able to run in another class with an F2 to be more competetive to enjoy the weekend more, instead of just running one class and going home, Thunderbike.  Don't compare apples to oranges.  It's simple...max hp from an F2 reliably is 100hp, with a lotta money spent, (keyword built); steel frame Vs. Aluminum; 435lbs. in weight; an 20 years old to say the least, so I don't see the big deal.  It comes down to rider ultimately!  Anyway, pick a class and I'll tally the vote and suggest it for the changes!  That is all......Peace!  

P.S. I race too because of the huge family we have here at CCS.  You can't beat the comraderie!  It's all about the fun...otherwise I'd have to leave.  Big RoNny

[F2RGK]

Guy,

That is all fine and dandy but we do have a rule for the HP to weight issue already in place.  105hp would be way over the mark to be legal in that respect (not too mention high dollars to get that).  I am not even referring to building the bike excessively.  I have made the comments earlier that the F2 is an inexpensive bike to purchase at first, setup is relatively cheap, if you crash it, no worries because it's crash worthy, and in stock form it's competetive at roughly 85-90hp in stock form, and it attracts more people to race at the beginner level so the street squid won't feel intimidated.  I want to try and grow the sport, get people off the street and onto the track.  By adding one more class would help that other than Thunderbike,  even if we have to make one up.   

[F2RGK]

Yes, there are too many races as it is.

Dave, I see your point!  Any ideas?

[roadracer162]

Guy, I agree with you in having the F2 run the LW SB stuff. I don't believe that an F2 can achieve the weight of 325# but I am coming fromthe perspective of racing an FZR600 which is a comparable machine. To achieve that would mean some high dollar stuff and that would defeat one of the purposes of inclusion.

Ron, I think that you have the best approach as far as agreeing on one of the Lightweight SB classes and submitting inclusion for that class.

My take after racing a modified FZR600 for the past couple years? My bike produces 106 rwhp (U4, pump gas=104)) on an older dyno and a reported 98 rwhp  (U4)on Prieto's dyno. It is reportedly a little less power than the SuperbikeSV that Barnes rode at Daytona. Modifications include a Falicon crank, Wiseco 630 kit, mild porting and cam work. All this breathing through a set of Flatslide carbs. So there you have it, it's what I have and what it produces. I am told that stock spec FZR and F2 make close to that but I gotta wonder. I am sure someone with more talent can get more out of it but I would question at what reliability.

The FZR is lot heavier than the SV and even heavier than my GSXR1000. To lose weight would mean Marchessinni wheels and cutting the steel subframe off but how much could you actually save. The frame by itself is very heavy (steel frame) with no amount of weight savings attainable. The stock suspension is no match for the updated stuff of a new bike. I have upgraded the front end to an R1 front and what a difference.

The FZR600 with the modified motor is competitive with a Duc DS1000 but is somewhat underpowered to the same bike in SB form. It is also competitive and closely matches a Superbike SV as far as outright HP goes. I have done some of my own seat of the pants comparisons where I have pulled up next to these bikes at Daytona and they are pretty good matches.

I say let the F2 run GT lights or Lightweight SB, LW GP, or just one of those. I would love to run in the GT lights race just for the shear fun of running a longer race other than sprints.

[backMARKr]

um......




                                                       wabbit season?!?!?