NEED HELP! F2'S IN LIGHTWEIGHT CLASSES!

[EX_#76]

It seems what you are asking for is a rule change to make a vintage bike competetive in current classes.

+1

[benprobst]

It seems what you are asking for is a rule change to make a vintage bike competetive in current classes.

bingo.

[F2RGK]

bingo.

SShhhhhh Ben, the baby is sleeping...you're crying louder than he is!  This is where I become the Devils Advocate!  Sounds like we have a few chickens in the house all squakin'.  What...afraid of more competition in your class?  PJ, said it right...Depending on the rule change, this isn't meant to let the class become a dumping ground for older 600's.  With that said---Cya- Big RoNny

[sauce]

let the f2's into lite weight superbike,who's gonna dump all kinds of $$$$ in  14yr old tank. not like any of the f2 riders are as fast as the top 3 in lw sb anyway.

[EX_#76]

let the f2's into lite weight superbike,who's gonna dump all kinds of $$$$ in  14yr old tank. not like any of the f2 riders are as fast as the top 3 in lw sb anyway.

You create a place for them, and someone will.  Hell I will.

[benprobst]

SShhhhhh Ben, the baby is sleeping...you're crying louder than he is!  This is where I become the Devils Advocate!  Sounds like we have a few chickens in the house all squakin'.  What...afraid of more competition in your class?  PJ, said it right...Depending on the rule change, this isn't meant to let the class become a dumping ground for older 600's.  With that said---Cya- Big RoNny

Calm down, dont take it so personal little guy. No im not afraid of more competition. First off I have moved out of the lw class, and even if I hadnt I still think its wrong to ask for a rule change to allow a bike that cant compete in its designated class into a lower class. Just seems wrong. For god sakes its racing, buy a newer motorcycle or deal with what you've got. I have a 99 R1 in the basement, with a crappy tune job it probably only makes 120 hp, can I be let in with the 600's? Those modern liter bikes are just too fast.

[F2RGK]

Calm down, dont take it so personal little guy. No im not afraid of more competition. First off I have moved out of the lw class, and even if I hadnt I still think its wrong to ask for a rule change to allow a bike that cant compete in its designated class into a lower class. Just seems wrong. For god sakes its racing, buy a newer motorcycle or deal with what you've got. I have a 99 R1 in the basement, with a crappy tune job it probably only makes 120 hp, can I be let in with the 600's? Those modern liter bikes are just too fast.

Big Ben:  Nothing personal taken nor given.  This is just a conversation that I am bringing up to get peoples viewpoints on.  By the way, why do you care so much?  I hear that you ride only one track anyway--is that true?  Also, I went to Daytona this year....I don't care what anyone sais about the Buells....they are faster than my F2---so people who want to compare hp to torque and limitations or worrying about being competetive....WHATEVER! 

[Burt Munro]

Come on, give Ben some credit. He raced at 4 or 5 tracks this year. But all but 1 was with the 'superior' organization so that's equal to racing 10 or 12 tracks with CCS! 

[benprobst]

No I do not run one track, I guess you are refering to only running one CCS race this year which was at my home track, and like I said I run lots of tracks, just didnt do any CCS this year. I ran a another series along with some national endurance stuff this year and did very well. I think the thing some people are missing, as you stated "the buells are faster than my F2" is that it doesnt matter if you personally have a slow bike. The fact is if you give a bike like the F2 a spot on a SB grid in a lower class, at LEAST one person will find a way to absolutly dominate. Give a F2 to Guy Bartz and see what he does with the bodywork/tank/frame via sb rules. Then let him and Ed and MC Perf dig into the motor and they WILL show up with a 350lb 115 hp F2. I guess I understand your point in some ways in that you want more places to race your bike, but what I dont understand is the need to be competitive. I mean if you are racing a F2 I would think your primary objective is fun and track time, so why not just enter the thing in the 5 MW races its legal for and go ride and have fun. Why is there a need to push it into a lower class? I guess I dont really know why I care so much. I just see the LW class as a really great way to get into racing cheap and with a little talent and hard work be competetive. And with the dawn of 12, 000 dollar lightweight bikes it worries me that another potentially dominant bike will move in and take the success away from a deserving young rider who may not have the budget to run with a 12 000 dollar BMW or a built and simply out classying inline 4. I guess thats what I care about, and even though I have moved out of the LW class my feelings remain.


Burt, I dont know who you are or who you think you are, but im tired of you following me around commenting on shit that does'nt pertain to you when no one is talking to you or about you. Just mind your own business and if you are who I think you are practice waiting for the 1 board to go sideways before you wave the greenflag before you get someone killed, if thats not you (rich I think) then forget that sentence and pay attention to the rest. Im sorry if you dont like me, but deal with it and enough with your snide passive agressive comments.

[Burt Munro]

Ben,

If you think my ego needs to be fed by 'following you around' you're dead wrong.  I think it's universally accepted on this board that I'm an equal opportunity muck raker.  I'm here for fun, sharing some information and I'm not afraid of making politically incorrect statements.  I say things sometimes that others can't or won't say for fear of retribution at the track or for for other legtimate reasons. But things that sometimes need to be said.  I call people out when they say something stupid or humorous.  In your case it repeatedly seems to be the former.

Ben, I don't know if anyone has ever told you this but, you have a very high opinion of yourself and your abilities - far beyond your years.  Sort of like a 'Nate Kern Lite' without all the financial missteps and the media hype attitude.  You remind me of a lot of other people I have known in your age range in a variety of interests.  You want to get to the top and you want it NOW!  Being driven for success is a wonderful personality trait.  As long as it is measured with a certain amount of respect for those who came before you and who have learned a few lessons the hard way that you have yet to experience.

I wish you nothing but success in your racing career and as you gain experiences the wisdom to keep those events in their proper prospective.  Race with humility towards others and win with careful compassion that will cushion your fall when it invariably comes.  At some point there may be only one way out of a situation and hopefully it won't be over a bridge that you've already burned.

Burt

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I've always felt that Lightweight was a place for low-buck beginners to get their feet wet and learn the game.  The class was always a hodgepodge of machinery, some of it fairly old.  If the idea is to provide an inexpensive, entry level class, why not let the F2 in?  I can remember some epic battles with Edger Dorn on his SV, Billy Casper on his F2, and me on my FZR560.  It's cool when diverse machines can compete so closely.

Heck, you might as well let in the FZR600 as well as the F2.  Yes, someone could build a 115 hp, 350 lb F2.  It would be like riding the tip of a whip.  Torque is a good thing.  Ask any inline four guy who's raced against twins.  A highly tuned, don't lose momentum or you're screwed, peaky four is a real handful, especially in a tight dice with a point-and-shoot twin.
A rules change to make a vintage bike competitive?  How about a rules change to add some cost-effective diversity to what is presumably an entry level class?  The thing is that there are F2s and FZR600s stacked in piles at every bike salvage yard.  A bucks-down racer might actually be able to have some fun and maybe even win a few trophys on one.  Would that be good for the sport, or are we trying to keep the low income rabble out these days, Buffy?
I can see the point about F2s dominating the Expert ranks when built by talented rider/fabricators like Key and Bartz.  Hell, that's what turned Thunderbike into a one-marque parade.  It was really a shame watching that class turn into an F2 freight train as every other bike was driven from the class.  That is what drove the Thunderbike class into extinction, right? ::)

No one has to LIKE my opinion.  But keep in mind that people who already own a copy of the dominant machine in a class are always really good at getting in a huff and crying foul if they smell compitition from outside their marque.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

An F2 being comparable in performance to a LW bike does not make it a LW bike.  Period.

One word: Buell.