Rules are only guide, use brain!

[chris_chops]

Engine Ice and Evans are just as slippery as the coolant that comes stock in a bike.  This coolant is illegal because it is a safety hazard.  
If rulebook does not state that Engine ice and Evans is illegal, does this negate the fact that they are VERY slippery.  NO!, so don't use this stuff!  It causes more accidents than water-wetter and takes valuable time to clean up.

Racers should be responsible and smart enough to guide themselves on issues not covered by the rulebook.
If you are racing, be responsible.  Allow yourself to think and don't assume CCS's rulebook is a safety guide.  Sometimes it takes time for rules to be updated to properly protect the racers.  This is no excuse for negligent behavior and cutting corners because "da rulebook said it was o.k.".
If you are having trouble with common sense, please try another sport.

Thanks,
Matt

[sdiver68]

This is the second or third post where you have argued that anyone who doesn't believe your opinion on EG based coolants must be brain dead.   I argue there is an equal or greater risk of blowing an engine during the below freezing months (March-April).

I'll tell you what, I'll run straight water in my bike if you'll pony up the $5000 to have my engine rebuilt if it freezes.  And, Free of Charge because I'm a reasonable person, I'll run straight water in my bike as soon as there is no threat of a freeze, and encourage everyone to do likewise.

If you have a problem with me running EG in April, then I suggest you please don't show up at BHF and Road America.

Thanks,
Steve

[EX#996]

Steve I'm with you.

Last year at at RA in April I got up one morning and it was 28 degrees.  I don't think anyone's engine would have frozen overnight, but why take a chance.  Plus, when we left on Sunday it was raining at Elkhart but snowing by the time we got home.   ::)

Dawn   :)

[chris_chops]

Steve,
So you are too lazy to take ten minutes to avoid a potential lengthy cleanup, or worse, a bad crash.  Ten minutes, Steve, that is what we are arguing about.  TEN MINUTES.  Draining takes about two minutes and filling in the morning about 8.  For the three possible weekends that this situation presents itself, we are talking a total of 1/2 hour over the course of a year.  If it takes you longer, maybe an hour over a year.  
     It's o.k. for you to whine about how much of a pain it is to fill and drain, but overall safety is not on your mind.  If you can't perform these tasks, you may be close to brain dead.  So for all of the other racers who are using there brains, why don't you just skip RA.  Or come find me, and I'll train you.  
    It won't be an issue next year, so enjoy the 1/2 hour to an hour you save being irresponsible.  EG will be illegal soon in CCS.
 š šIn your insurance post, you state it is so easy to reach your representative. šOnly takes two minutes, and our voices will be heard. šThat is all I've ever been saying to you and the rest of the "EG" crew. šTake the extra time and give others some piece of mind. š EG will cause physical harm due to slippery spot causing crash as where water won't. šAre you gonna argue that too? š
 š š I give up for now, please don't crash when we are RA. šI can't make you use water, only the rules can. šI'll do my best to change them. šThanks for the motivation.  We'll talk about it at the track, if I haven't totally offended you.  I don't want your motor to get ruined and I don't want you to crash.  I also don't want to write about the rulebook anymore.  Let's agree to disagree.
Don't swing any crowbars at me, calling you lazy isn't the end of the world.
Matt

[Dawn]

 If you can't perform these tasks, you may be close to brain dead.  So for all of the other racers who are using there brains, why don't you just skip RA.  Or come find me, and I'll train you.  Maybe I'll show you around the track as well and you'd have a little more respect.

Matt

Matt

My goodness Matt, take a chill pill.  It sounds like you are suffering from PMS (parked motorcycle syndrome).

If you don't want to have the Engine Ice or Evans run on the track, have the rule changed.  Until it is, you will have people using this, not because they are stupid, but because they do not want to chance engine damage.  

There are many things that cause a rider to crash besides coolant like oil, dirt and gravel.  It's a part of racing.

Dawn

[chris_chops]

Dawn,
I edited that out cause it was a joke.  It sounded like I was pissed, which I'm not, so I edited it out as you were writing. You seem to be doing some editing of my post as well.  I never argued that an engine can freeze with water in it.  I've argued to take the time to drain and fill and be responsible.  Please read carefully, I do the same before I respond.  We did come to the same conclusion, RULE CHANGE.  But, here is the argument as I see it.  
    My side is drain and fill water and take the extra time to be responsible.
    The other side is it takes too long to do and the rules don't say I have to, so I'm running EG.
    Steve and I have been going on this for awhile.
No anger, all love,
Matt

[Dawn]

Dawn,
I edited that out cause it was a joke.  It sounded like I was pissed, which I'm not, so I edited it out as you were writing. You seem to be doing some editing of my post as well.  I never argued that an engine can freeze with water in it.  I've argued to take the time to drain and fill and be responsible.  Please read carefully, I do the same before I respond.  We did come to the same conclusion, RULE CHANGE.  But, here is the argument as I see it.  
    My side is drain and fill water and take the extra time to be responsible.
    The other side is it takes too long to do and the rules don't say I have to, so I'm running EG.
    Steve and I have been going on this for awhile.
No anger, all love,
Matt

Matt:

I only removed a few sentences of your post in the quote.  I did read it carefully - in fact a few times - before I posted, but you may have finished your edit prior to my completing my response (I had to actually do some work  ::))

Dawn

[chris_chops]

 

There are many things that cause a rider to crash besides coolant like oil, dirt and gravel.  It's a part of racing.

Dawn

On this comment:  This is irrelevant to subject matter.  The subject is PREVENTION.  Not DANGERS ASSOCIATED WITH ROADRACING.  
     I know of a specific incident where your husband crashed when another rider did something irresponsible.  He did not write it off as part of the sport.  If I remembered, you and your husband were pissed.  Dawn, I happen to know it was preventable.  It would have taken twenty minutes to fix the bike in the pits so your husband wouldn't have been in an incident involving a throttle cable.  
No more PMS,
Matt

[sdiver68]

Matt-

Well I admit your posts looked a little edgy to me, so I apologize for getting edgy back.   :)

However,

You still haven't addressed the danger of having a "drained" engine freeze and crack!  I have never said I was too lazy to drain at night and refill in the morning with water...but unless you know some technique that I do not, there is still plenty of water left in the engine passages.  THIS "leftover" WATER CAN FREEZE and DESTROY your engine, again, unless I''ve been misinformed by several "National" level engine builders.  

It was 18 degrees last March when we got to the track for the first race weekend at Gateway.  :o

[Litespeed]

All local short track races (yeah, I'm using nascar as a reference) on asphault have banned the use of standard antifreeze because the standard media used to clean up a spill is not effective in removing anti-freeze from the track.  The type of liquid on the track won't really make a difference as to whether you crash or not, if you crash from running through oil you were just as likely to have crashed if you ran through water.  The important thing for SAFETY is that the liquid doesn't get on the track (belly pans, safety wire etc) and secondly it can be cleaned off of the track in the event of a spill (of which water/evans/etc and be and antifreeze can't be).

[chris_chops]

Matt-

Well I admit your posts looked a little edgy to me, so I apologize for getting edgy back. š :)

However,

You still haven't addressed the danger of having a "drained" engine freeze and crack! šI have never said I was too lazy to drain at night and refill in the morning with water...but unless you know some technique that I do not, there is still plenty of water left in the engine passages. šTHIS "leftover" WATER CAN FREEZE and DESTROY your engine, again, unless I''ve been misinformed by several "National" level engine builders. š

It was 18 degrees last March when we got to the track for the first race weekend at Gateway. š:o

I realised while I was on my last edit that I never addressed that. šI can't justify you ruining your block just cuz it didn't happen to my ducati. šI'm starting to see that running EG may be unavoidable. šI guess I was all over the laziness and irresponsibility and passed right over the cracking. š:-[ šSorry Steve.
 š If those "National" guys really can't come up with anything, than I don't think I can either. šI honestly did not think your motor would crack in a trailer overnight. šThe only way to find out would be really expensive, I'm glad my duc never froze with the leftover water.
 š š I guess after five years of sharing the track with some real irresponsible riders, you know they are out there, I am a little paranoid.
 š š I assume the risks of racing, and the track has bit me hard. šSometimes when I got bit it was just the risk of racing, other times it was preventable. šRealising there is a difference is a big step that some people never take. šIt may have been a mistake for me to address this coolant issue on those terms and suggest that you were one of those people that doesn't understand the difference. š
Enough, let's race and have some fun.
Peace,
Matt


P.s. I sent my letters to reps. :)

[Dawn]

On this comment:  This is irrelevant to subject matter.  The subject is PREVENTION.  Not DANGERS ASSOCIATED WITH ROADRACING.  
     I know of a specific incident where your husband crashed when another rider did something irresponsible.  He did not write it off as part of the sport.  If I remembered, you and your husband were pissed.  Dawn, I happen to know it was preventable.  It would have taken twenty minutes to fix the bike in the pits so your husband wouldn't have been in an incident involving a throttle cable.  
No more PMS,
Matt

I was pondering as to weather or not to respond to this post or to just let it go.  Well here goes....

It is true when Paul and another rider connected one fateful day I was upset, and yes, Paul was pissed that it happened.  A hand up or a foot out to give Paul some indication that there was a problem would have been helpful.  But it didn't happen and Paul end up going head first into the tire wall and the SV had broken body work and bent forks.

But that was then, and this is now, we got over it.  We talked to the person and I hope he also knows that we have no hard feelings and in fact I enjoy talking to him once in a while.

Dawn   :)