Wave starts

[r1owner]

was that your 4th or 5th AM season???

DOH! :)

[red900]

I single class race with multiple wave starts is BS.  How is it considered fair when the guy you are supposed to beat gets a green flag 10 seconds before you. 

[r1owner]

I single class race with multiple wave starts is BS.  How is it considered fair when the guy you are supposed to beat gets a green flag 10 seconds before you. 

Yeah, it was tough to take.  Just too many bikes.  I would rather be safe then worry about it though.  I figure if you're that serious about winning, you'll prolly be pre-registering anyway.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

I single class race with multiple wave starts is BS.  How is it considered fair when the guy you are supposed to beat gets a green flag 10 seconds before you. 

Ever see 60 bikes going into T1 at the same time? Carnage usually is the result. Been in one like this. Lets just say it was rather "fun". Not to mention DODGING the bike sliding on the ground and the rider tumbling while having 15 or so bikes in teh vacinity.

[red900]

I guess I would rather take that chance.  Unfortunately it is defined as attrition. If ya cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.   

This is just another reason for qualifying....  not pre-registry

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

I'm pretty sure the Heavyweight races at Road America were single wave starts with the Amatuers being released at the same time as the Experts, either that or there's some Amateurs out there that are capable of getting to Turn 3 at the same time as me (when they wouldn't have got the green flag until I was at Turn1).  I personally believe ALL AM / EX combined races should be 2 wave starts - even if the delay is minimal - it gives the Expert field time to straighten itself out before the Professional Amateurs try and get as far up into the Experts as possible. I could care less WHO passes me, this is purely from a safety point of view, the majority of all the close calls I have are with some of the fast Amateurs who are trying to bonzai their way up thru the Expert field at what seems to be any cost. If they want to race with the Experts so badly, they need to get their race license upgraded!

Just my OPINION guys, I'm certainly not bashing Amateurs as a group, just pointing out something race control may not be aware of! 

[Burt Munro]

Mike,

Another aspect you may have not considered is that it can also be a good idea to minimize the gap between the first and 2nd wave for safety purposes - especially on shorter tracks.

I was encouraged to do this by Kevin Elliott while starting at MAM . 

The thought here is that by keeping the gap between 1st/2nd waves as short as safely possible to get everyone thru the 1st turn, you also reduce the number of lappers that the 1st wave leaders encounter as the race progresses.

So its kind of a double edged sword - as much gap as possible to get everyone thru turn #1 - and at the same time as little gap as possible to limit the number of back markers that get lapped.

Just another consideration to throw into the whole mix!! 

[wolf44]

I agree with GSXR in that combined AM/EX races should be two wave starts.  One of two bad things can happen between people who aren't even actually racing against each other.  1) A fast AM gets a good start and gets pinched by a slower EX and lose places in turn 1.  2) on the other foot if two ex riders get separated by a AM who gets a killer start, now you've got to get past that guy to get to the guy/or girl that you  are actually racing against.  The delay doesn't have to be much, even 3-5 seconds would be sufficient. 

And again I think grids should be posted by regional points and then pre-entry
Theres my 2/100th of a dollar for today

[JBraun]

it gives the Expert field time to straighten itself out before the Professional Amateurs try and get as far up into the Experts as possible. I could care less WHO passes me, this is purely from a safety point of view, the majority of all the close calls I have are with some of the fast Amateurs who are trying to bonzai their way up thru the Expert field at what seems to be any cost. If they want to race with the Experts so badly, they need to get their race license upgraded!

Professional amateurs? I think that's a little unfair. What do you propose they do, slow down?
It's not about racing the experts at all. The amateurs are running their own race, and can't afford to get held up by the back of the expert field. When I was an amateur, I tried to pass the experts as cleanly as possible, but when you're battling for a position in traffic, or trying to get away at the front sometimes things get a little sketchy.

Some of my scariest on-track experiences happened when I was cut off by a slower expert who didn't want to get passed by a yellow plate. I never understood it.
If an amateur runs you down from the second wave in four laps, he's faster than you by a long shot. Don't try to slam the door on him. Concede the position and move on with your race. (I don't mean you personally, Mike. just generalizing)

I agree that the fast amateurs should step up. I did it voluntarily, as soon as I had the required points. I saw no point in chasing Curt and Marshall around all year, they had me covered anyway. I moved up because I wanted to improve.

BUT, it's a two way street, if you're a way off the pace as an expert, CCS should ask you to step down. I know it's unpopular, but it would solve the problem we're talking about.

[r1owner]

I think it would be cool if we could do one of the old school grand prix starts where you had to run across the track to get to your bike!

[Team Spalding]

I'm with r1. Lets do the old school gp starts.

[r1owner]

I'm with r1. Lets do the old school gp starts.

Hehe... upon further reflection... I think we'd have to have qualifying times for our 30 foot race across the track.  You DEFINITELY don't want the slowest dude on foot on pole position.  He might get run over by some young fast (on foot) dude just getting to his bike!